Talk:Star Wars (franchise)
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Why are we assuming that the SW guys are TF-sized? Scale's pretty fucked up in Attacktix, considering we have Mini-Cons about as big as Super Mode Optimus... as is TIME, since you've got guys from all eras of SW-dom involved. The whole "these guys are TF sized" is massive fannon that I don't think has any place in here. --M Sipher 05:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Because in the absense of contradicting evidence, why should we assume otherwise? Assuming the SW humans are actually very small seems to be as much of a fan assumption. There are TF-sized humans in the TF universe. Plenty of them. --ItsWalky 14:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- I would argue that an "assumption" either way would be unwarrented, unless one wants to posit a) those pilots are not actually the Star Wars characters they seem intended to represent, or b) humans in the Star Wars universe are not the same size as Earth humans, I don't think Walky's got a very strong case. You need evidence to make statements like that. I vote to eliminate the scale passage.--G.B. Blackrock 15:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, the main bugbear about the heights of the SW guys is that canon SW material has official heights and weights listed, and if Darth Vader is two meters tall, then clearly, either he grew or the TFs shrunk when they hung out. -hx 16:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- But for the purposes of this Wiki, we are not considering non-TF material. See Spider-Man's page. --ItsWalky 16:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Which doesn't make up anything about Spider-Man that is contradictroy to the actual material, just jokingly omits anything ghtat is not directly relevant to his time spent with the Transformers. That's different. And the scale issue, as previously noted, is ALREADY shaky at best since all the TRANSFORMERS save Omega Supreme and Sentinel end up the same size. --M Sipher 19:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Spider-Man's entry does suggest his powers may come from his suit, which is the only logical conclusion we can gather from his single appearance, since the radioactive spider was never mentioned, and, hey, he has this suit. Likewise, since all the Attacktix material has Darth Vader attacking a similarly-sized Optimus Prime, that's not exactly an erroneous assumption. --ItsWalky 14:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- I thought black-costume Spider-Man's whole GIG was "awesome super suit that did super shit". Before it went Venom. --M Sipher 23:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, but he still had the proportionate strength of a spider and the ability to climb up walls. If the suit had those powers, it got them from him. --ItsWalky 00:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- I thought black-costume Spider-Man's whole GIG was "awesome super suit that did super shit". Before it went Venom. --M Sipher 23:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Spider-Man's entry does suggest his powers may come from his suit, which is the only logical conclusion we can gather from his single appearance, since the radioactive spider was never mentioned, and, hey, he has this suit. Likewise, since all the Attacktix material has Darth Vader attacking a similarly-sized Optimus Prime, that's not exactly an erroneous assumption. --ItsWalky 14:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Which doesn't make up anything about Spider-Man that is contradictroy to the actual material, just jokingly omits anything ghtat is not directly relevant to his time spent with the Transformers. That's different. And the scale issue, as previously noted, is ALREADY shaky at best since all the TRANSFORMERS save Omega Supreme and Sentinel end up the same size. --M Sipher 19:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- But for the purposes of this Wiki, we are not considering non-TF material. See Spider-Man's page. --ItsWalky 16:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Is there even any necessary reason why the SW TFs and the SW/TF Attacktix figures are the same continuity as each other?--G.B. Blackrock 21:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, there's this big set that includes characters from both franchises, with art of them fighting each other, and it says they fight each other, and you're supposed to make them fight each other. --ItsWalky 21:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm well aware of that, but that doesn't really answer my question.... For example, if the TF Attacktix ultimately includes, say, G1 characters, instead of just UT continuity TFs (an assumption, I know), that would be a fairly strong argument against considering such toys to be linked in continuity with the toy franchises from which they came, since G1 and UT are already considered separate.
- In any event, I'm with Siph on this one. Scale is a hairy issue within each franchise as it is (indeed, always has been). I see no reason for making the assumption that SW humans (non-Attacktix, especially) are on TF scale on the basis of Attacktix figures which, admittedly, do fight each other hand to hand as if the humans were on such scale. It certainly looks to me like TF Attacktix won't fit in continuity even with the UT scale TFs themselves.--G.B. Blackrock 22:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- I think the existance of Star Wars Transformers (should) override this question of scale. And yes- Iw ant a Star Wars/TF comic. Let Star Wars/TF be the result of a UT crossover for once! GO NUTS. I want TF to be insane. er. -Derik 00:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, about those Star Wars TFs.... You realize, of course, that if we do accept that SW humans are TF sized, the SW Mecha of those Star Wars TF toys would represent HUGE TFs (along the lines of Don Figueroa's Macromasters).--G.B. Blackrock 13:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I thought that'd be pretty neat. --ItsWalky 14:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Be that as it may, it represents an unsubstantiated assumption about SW humans in general. The most we can say is that this is true within "Attacktix" continuity....--G.B. Blackrock 18:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I thought that'd be pretty neat. --ItsWalky 14:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, about those Star Wars TFs.... You realize, of course, that if we do accept that SW humans are TF sized, the SW Mecha of those Star Wars TF toys would represent HUGE TFs (along the lines of Don Figueroa's Macromasters).--G.B. Blackrock 13:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- I think the existance of Star Wars Transformers (should) override this question of scale. And yes- Iw ant a Star Wars/TF comic. Let Star Wars/TF be the result of a UT crossover for once! GO NUTS. I want TF to be insane. er. -Derik 00:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
What's the relative scale RF/human on the art of them fighting one another? -Derik 21:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It's been repeatedly established, at least throughout the G1 continuities, that most humanoid species are Transformer-sized. Furthermore, every piece of evidence points to the Star Wars characters being the same size as Transformers. I think it's pretty clear cut. Chip 03:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- There are examples, to be sure, but I think "most" is a bit of a stretch. You certainly have at least TWO very prominent ones that are human sized in the comic alone. In fact, what humanoid species ARE there in the cartoon that are TF sized? And most of the TF-sized aliens in the comic aren't really humanoid. What other TF continuities are you referring to? And every piece of evidence points to SW characters being the same size as TFs? Siph's already pointed out that scale is wonky by noting that Mini-Cons and Super Prime are the same size. That's a least one piece of evidence that doesn't point to TF-sized SW humans right there. In short, I don't think the evidence is as clear cut as you seem to think it is....--G.B. Blackrock 04:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Also, there's the simple fact that there ARE established "real" heights for SW guys. Yeah, yeah, you can say "we don't cover outside fictions" all you want, but pretending they don't exist at all then making things up about them that are patently untrue only makes us look dumb, frankly, and goes against the "don't make shit up" standard we set. Omission is one thing... and this isn't omission, this is blatant fabrication and contradiction. --M Sipher 04:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Alanna's people are Transformers-size, as are the Eurythmians, ...were the peopel from Face of the Nijika TF-sized?
- More to the point-t hese guiant humans are actually CALLED Humans in many cases.
- Mind, I think all of this is silly. The soto-voice comments int he article should be "it's not clear if the creatures are Transformer-sized as depicted on the box art or not." You lose very little of the humorous impact while no longer saying somethign that, as many objected to, is blatant fabrication- projecting non-story onto the cannon for the sake of humor. (Thing WE know to be non-story, even thought he cannon, being unaware of the larger body of Star Wars lore, does not.) -Derik 16:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'd actually be fine with a solution such as this. Incidentally, do you have source citations for these alien races you mention? My own memory of actual alien race names is fuzzy, and without bothering to check, I'm guessing that we likely haven't gotten around to creating entries for them yet.--G.B. Blackrock 16:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- The Human article mentions a few Transformer-sized human races, such as the Femaxians and Miss Fatale from "Bird of Prey." Likewise, Cloudburst and Landmine were readily identified as humans when they went incognito on Grand Central Space Station. Nobody raised any eyebrows at them being thirty feet tall. I believe there were some in the cartoon, as well, but I'm less familiar with that. --ItsWalky 18:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- The "Human" article seems to mention only comic races, but even if the comic was the only source of "TF-sized" humans, it would certainly be sufficient for the sake of precedent, and I'm not trying to argue otherwise. Incidentally, I have never objected to the wording at the end of that article that says "It is possible that the tiny version of humans found on Earth is the exception, rather than the rule." (emphasis mine) The source of my objection is simply the "matter-of-fact" assumption given here that SW humans are TF-sized, on the basis of a toy line that seems to be outside of any kind of continuity to begin with.--G.B. Blackrock 18:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- The Human article mentions a few Transformer-sized human races, such as the Femaxians and Miss Fatale from "Bird of Prey." Likewise, Cloudburst and Landmine were readily identified as humans when they went incognito on Grand Central Space Station. Nobody raised any eyebrows at them being thirty feet tall. I believe there were some in the cartoon, as well, but I'm less familiar with that. --ItsWalky 18:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'd actually be fine with a solution such as this. Incidentally, do you have source citations for these alien races you mention? My own memory of actual alien race names is fuzzy, and without bothering to check, I'm guessing that we likely haven't gotten around to creating entries for them yet.--G.B. Blackrock 16:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Mind, I think all of this is silly. The soto-voice comments int he article should be "it's not clear if the creatures are Transformer-sized as depicted on the box art or not." You lose very little of the humorous impact while no longer saying somethign that, as many objected to, is blatant fabrication- projecting non-story onto the cannon for the sake of humor. (Thing WE know to be non-story, even thought he cannon, being unaware of the larger body of Star Wars lore, does not.) -Derik 16:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- I prefer to think that Atacktics is int he same continuity as the Armada video game. -Derik 18:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I dunno, that art sure makes it LOOK like either the SW humans are huge, or the Transformers have been shrunk down.
And if you shrunk down the Transoformers, they'd have itty-bitty cockpits int hem that couldnt' fit anything! And that's just silly! -69.88.91.218 17:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
