Talk:Predacon (Prime)

Kreon Predacons?

We count Kreons as their own continuity. But I really feel like the Kreon Predacons are meant to flesh out the Pred numbers. I suppose they don't go here unless they're in aligned? Or can we put all Preds with this faction symbol on the same page, like the Wreckers are. Thoughts?--76.28.76.206 19:53, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

That's a good question. These guys are explicitly Beast Hunters-branded, but I doubt Hasbro will make a distinction between BH and non-BH Kre-O fiction. My inclination is to leave them off, but it's an imperfect answer necessitated by our wiki's entire way of handling continuities. -LV 19:59, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

Most of our factional pages are cross-continuity. We only have one Decepticon and Autobot page, instead of Autobot (G1), Autobot (Armada), etc, because they're all really the same entity. But unlike how "Autobot" always means the same thing, the "Predacon" faction often means something different, depending on continuity family, whether it's G1, BW, or (now) Aligned. The Autobot and Decepticon pages are lucky enough to not have to have a "franchise-of-origin" disambiguation parenthetical, but Predacon (Prime) is not. ....long story short, I think Kre-O Predacons can go on this page, because this is the page for This Cross-Continuity Iteration Of Predacons. --ItsWalky 20:53, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

Since it's all evidently under the Beast Hunters umbrella, why not just "Predacon (Beast Hunters)"?--Carrion 21:48, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

Because Beast Hunters is a sub-franchise of Prime. The full title is "Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters". -- spyder^{Use this!} 22:33, 11 October 2012 (EDT)

Except that these new Kre-O sets also sport the Beast Hunters sub-franchise logo. And they said at the NYCC panel that it's gonna be the 2013 theme of not just the Prime franschise but the whole Transformers brand itself. --Sabrblade 14:42, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Members and plot

I'm not real clear on what the preferred format is for subgroup pages, so would it be appropriate to have a list of members as they appear in the show/books, and would info on the Predacon's goals that would be spoilers for recent materials be appropriate for the lead, or does it need to remain within a synopsis until the spoilers expire?KrytenKoro 14:56, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Well, I went ahead and added the stuff that's already mentioned on the wiki, figuring that can't be too bad. Should Swoop count as a temporary member?KrytenKoro 00:27, 12 February 2013 (EST)

I still think we're artificially merging the concepts of the Predacons and the Forged. Being turned into one of the Forged didn't make Swoop a Predacon, nor were the Forged ever stated to all be Predacons. All of the Forged have been modified to be loyal to Shockwave, but we don't really know what else. Ser-Ket and Backbite are the only two that have displayed beast modes.--Rosicrucian^Talk 00:40, 12 February 2013 (EST)

Oh, I guess I misunderstood the comic book, then. I am missing #2, so...yeah. Oops!

Also, apparently there's some kind of Beast Hunters guidebook written from Shockwave's point of view that's been published. Anyone know if (1) that's kosher for inclusion and (2) the character mentioned within it who is not already on this page is okay to be added? (I don't want to spoil anything that's not already on the wiki)KrytenKoro 00:52, 12 February 2013 (EST)

That was a pamphlet handed out to folks at ToyFair to hype upcoming releases. As far as I know it's entirely kosher.--Rosicrucian^Talk 01:01, 12 February 2013 (EST)

When I asked about that pamphlet, one of the Hasbro presenters said that it was an internal document that was meant to pump the team up for Beast Hunters, and that later it was apparently used as a giveaway in Hong Kong, which they didn't find out about it until it hit the internet. We did not receive it for attending US Toy Fair 2013. --Monzo 01:19, 12 February 2013 (EST)

If...it's not meant to ever be given out in English, and was released officially in Hong Kong...does it loophole back to usable?KrytenKoro 02:30, 12 February 2013 (EST)

Well with this information it was certainly intended to be given out in English, just not in North America. Hasbro Asia is still an official channel, and thus it ought to still be kosher. It's not a leak.--Rosicrucian^Talk 03:14, 12 February 2013 (EST)

In regards to the Forged, the latest description of Rage of the Dinobots seems to indicate that they are Predacons, possibly that Shockwave is one as well. (Of course, the blurb holds no water next to the comic, but just bringing this up).

DINOBOT WAR! GRIMLOCK leads the DINOBOTS against SHOCKWAVE's troops-and the results won't be pretty! With SWOOP under SER-KET's control, it's an all-or-nothing battle of DINOBOT versus PREDACON-with the fate of CYBERTRON hanging on every punch, blast, jab, and bite! Don't miss the senses-shattering conclusion to this mind-blowing miniseries!

Go! Predacon subgroup name

The grouping of Bakudora, Budora, Gaidora, and Judora is referred to as 四鬼衆 (Shikishū). The first two kanji are easily translatable as "Four Demon", but the last one leaves me scratching my head. I'm not really sure how to translate it in conjunction to the "Four Demon" part. (In case you're wondering, the Goraadora components are Jaki.) Mimi 23:12, 6 July 2013 (EDT)

Hmm, pretending no language/translation knowledge but "masses" "great numbers" would the English word "Horde" work at all? "Four Demon Horde" sounds like a thing...--ZacWilliam 00:06, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

"Oni Army Predacons" is a term I've seen relatively often. With the surfacing of the above other term, I'm now questioning this one's validity. --Sabrblade 18:59, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

"鬼" is more often used to portray a ferocious ogre rather than what would be called a demon in the West, so I don't think "demon" is going to be the best here. Maybe "monster" or "ogre"?

Also, "四衆" is the "four orders of Buddhist followers" or "four assemblies", which this seems to me to be a play on. "The Four Monstrous Assemblies", maybe?KrytenKoro 11:07, 8 July 2013 (EDT)

"Oni" are pretty well known of in the Western World, so I'd say it'd be safe to keep that. After all, the word does refer to a specific kind of monster rather than just generic "ogres" or "demons". --Sabrblade 16:58, 8 July 2013 (EDT)

They aren't assemblies, though. They're just four guys. I assume the use of a group word here is modified by containing four guys, not being multiplied by four. -LV 17:25, 8 July 2013 (EDT)

So, they're the "Four Oni Predacons", then? Or should the word "Predacon" come first since it's written as such in Japanese? Something like the "Predacon Four Oni Army"? --Sabrblade 17:55, 8 July 2013 (EDT)

If "衆" reads as "army", then, yeah, that'd be what I would go with. I certainly think "oni" in the context of Go! in particular makes more sense than genericizing it. They are clearly oni; making them "monsters" would be like renaming the Swordbots the Knight Team and the Assassin Team. -LV 19:08, 8 July 2013 (EDT)

I'm actually unsure if "衆" can be read as "army", since I only got that from other people rather than from a fully proper translation. Though, I do think "Four Oni Predacons" sounds nicer and not as clunky as "Predacon Four Oni (whatever)". But, if we must find a word for "衆", I'd hope for a way to make it sound good enough in English. --Sabrblade 01:11, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

I'm a bit unclear on how the Predacons work in Go!, but it sounded like that they could make multiples of the Abominus-repaint. Are we sure they're not doing something similar with the four deluxe/voyager predacons, could they be templates or something?

"鬼" on its own refers to a specific type of yokai, but is often used in compounds to mean something not quite demonic but merely unfettered and monstrous, like the "Kishin" or "Fierce Deity" Link. "衆" isn't "army", though. It has no military connotation, it means "masses of people". Furthermore, it turns out the "Four Assemblies" thing isn't even the closest match! There is in fact a "Hachibukishuu" where the number is 8 rather than 4.

"ちなみに八部鬼衆は、乾闥婆・毘舎闍・鳩槃荼・薛茘多・那伽（龍）・富單那・夜叉・羅刹の名を挙げる。"

"Incidentally, Hachibukishu include Kendatsuba, Bishaja, Kuhanda, Heireita, Naga, Futanna, Yasha and Rasetsu (Rakshasa)."

The way it's described, it seems to be describing races of oni or other Buddhist demons/monsters.

A somewhat similar construction, "鬼道衆" (which is given as "Demoniac horde, rather than Demon horde) appears in Tokyo Majin.

Based on all that, I'd have to say the most accurate translations are either "The Four (Predacon) Hordes" (if there's more than one of each bodyform - this matches the form of the Buddhist analogy) or "The (Predacon) Horde of Four" (if we're absolutely sure there's only one of each).

On a side note, I'm confused as to how they are clearly Oni rather than just generic yokai or dragons. Can anyone help me out with that?KrytenKoro 14:16, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

Because the episode itself calls them "Oni".

It also shows Gaidora, Judora, Budora, and Bakudora to be individuals while the Jaki are just generic fodder that Gaidora can seemingly make at will.

So, with "horde" in mind, I guess they'd be the "Predacon Four Oni Horde" or something? Or, if we go by how we refer to "Transformer Daisakusen" as "The Great Transformer War", maybe they'd be the "Four Predacon Oni Horde" or the "Four Oni Predacon Horde"? Actually, that last one kinda sounds like the best option. --Sabrblade 14:26, 9 July 2013 (EDT)

Ah, okay, that context clarifies things immensely! Thanks.

"Horde", from what I've found, would be the compound kishuu, rather than just the shuu.

"Four Oni Predacon Horde" sounds kind of awkward to me, and sounds like it would confuse whether it's four individuals or four tribes. I'd reocmmend something like the "(Predacon) (Oni) Horde of Four", which flows a bit more naturally and communicates that the horde consists of four members, rather than beings four hordes. Or, if necessary, the "(Predacon) Four-Oni Horde".KrytenKoro 16:57, 9 July 2013 (EDT)