Talk:Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)

Missing word.

"Drug Addicts" should be inserted between now considered by many and to be the critical pinnacle :-) Chaotic nipple 19:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I am going to have to ask you to leave. :-) --ItsWalky 19:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure about that? If I leave, the halucinatory spiders will come to get you. SPIDERS!!!! Chaotic nipple 03:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Comic continuation

This became so long so quickly that I'm hesitant to just dump it, but... it shouldn't be here. We have individual story pages (or will) for the comics stories, and that is where their respective summaries should go. This page concerns only the cartoon. The Beast Wars franchise page provides links to other media of Beast Wars.

Also, none of the summarizing is written in the proper voice. --Sntint 12:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, I strongly contest the claims made by ShadowHawk that Beast Machines is ignored by most fans, or that the IDW series is considered the "real" followup by most fans, so I removed the part about BM also. --Steve-o 15:08, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I intended to remove that but failed to. Thank you. --Sntint 15:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok I admit you guys have valid points, but honestly though Beast Machines is ignored, especially with Beast Wars: Ascending series...nothing of the Beast Machinese Saga was mentioned or continued through that series and honestly i've examined Beast Machines and it poorly reflects Beast Wars. Rhinox turning evil!? Megatron just happen to get lost in the warp portal and managed to get through ahead of time than the Maximals and already enslaved call of Cybertron to Vechicons!? The whole thing sounds crappy, but you guys are right so when are you guys able to start an article about the Beast Wars comic then? Here's the origninal wiki page Beast Wars: The Gathering -ShadowHawk

Untrue, the moon from Beast Wars has appeared elsewhere! ^_^

Seriously though, BM -> Universe -> Fun Pub. Characters originating with Beast Machines are still in circulation. (Well, okay, I admit Sentinel Maximus isn't in circulation now, but he was up until the current arc, which continues directly from a story where he was running around.) -Derik 03:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Shadowhawk, we don't need to "start" an article about it... we already have pages about The Gathering, both as a series, and individual articles for each issue. --Steve-o 04:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Steve took my main point, but I also want to re-iterate that Beast Machines being "ignored" needs to be substantiated if it's going to be included here. It sounds like a statement of canonical fact, which to my knowledge is not true. If you're just stating your opinion about BM... this really isn't the place for it. --Sntint 04:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

well pointed out, but whatever word you choose "ignore", "void", "revamp"..this whole matter is argumentative on that level because the fans are divided about what's canonical...in reality whoever owns the license rights tends to choose the direction of the series and have creative rights to change what has already happened, just look at Highlander 2...the hardcore fans hated it and it was redone several times because it was considered by majority that bad and I admit that I'm biased against Beast Machines cause i really think the story was poorly written however i never once thought about adding my personal feelings or opinions into this...IDW created a story line parallel to Beast Wars about time contamination and so you might say Beast Machines did happen, but because of Razor Beast's and Magmatron's interference with the time line is yet again further changed so it might be one of those time paradox's where it did happen, but it's been erased. Either way I understand your positions and honestly guys i tried looking for that "The Gathering" page but nothing surfaced on this site other than wikipedia's version online so i thought no one added it in. You guys made a fair call so i'm not going to challenge it, but I did write it based on the powers that control the direction of the Beast Wars universe currently and not in the past. I don't know about you guys, but those that control the license has a say what's canonical or not and right now the miniseries is by all technicality canonical. I apologize if i angered anyone, but seriously Beast Machines was like the Van Damne Street Fighter movie to me. There were some serious canonical flaws in there and that's why i'm "up in arms" with it and I don't mean to offend.-ShadowHawk

Whoah, whoah, hold on, there. Nobody's offended; calm down. The thing is, while:

1) Beast Machines garnered a poor initial reaction, and

2) IDW's comics may propose an alternate set of sequel-events for BW,

We cannot substantially say that 2) happened because of 1). I haven't READ the BW comics yet, and neither our article nor Wikipedia's seems to detail exactly what about it even contradicts BM.

If I've missed a point, then I apologize. Your sentence structure is a little hard to read. --Sntint 14:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Beast Machines is monumentally important to the overall franchise. Most of what we know about sparks and the Matrix/Allspark came from there. "The Gathering"'s franchise contributions amount to the novelty of seeing Razorbeast standing up and talking. Honestly, I think new would-be contributors should make an effort to read up on things like Canon and continuity families before they make proclamations about such on main article pages.

--Thylacine 2000 18:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The allspark thing was a canon conflict in it's own right. People tend to forget a certain race of 4 headed floating bots with tentacles are the progenitors of the transformers race. If you looked to the original series and compared to Beast Machines then you know that the spark concept was only a recent addition to give transformers a "soul." Robert N. Skir created that conflict by explaining that transformers have their own version of life, death, and reincarnation. However if you've watched every transformers so far they don't reborn any means smarter or experienced than they are. Look at Cheetor, does the man look any way experienced to you? I don't have a problem with the spark concept, it help explains a lot...however with the Quintessons and Allspark it's a complete conflict of story and logic behind transformer origins and physiology. I rather stick to the original story that the Quintessons were overthrown by their own creations versus the Allspark. With the Allspark, it suggests no matter how many transformers you can muster, there will always be a population limit to their growth. To even create more transformers would mean the older generation must be wiped cause no transformer dies of old age, only when destroyed. I like the idea that a transformer can be built from tools and machines versus needing a powerful device glowing over a technological objects to be born, but that's just me -ShadowHawk

None of these discrepancies are unique to Beast Machines. Are you familiar with the G1 comic continuity? --Sntint 07:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

you're right these issues aren't just unique to beast machines but i was making a point to the other dude that argued the allspark was a great explanation to the more spiritual side of the transformers universe through beast machines...like i said before it's origins are very argumentative cause whoever has the rights to publish transformers stuff can say anything they want. If you're going comic on me, then it totally changes or dismiss the quintessons significance depending on which series or issue. Same goes with Primus as the "god" of transformers. I'm just trying to prove my point of the canonical errors within Beast Machines and it's rough relation with G1. Oh you know me by now, very hardcore when it comes to the supposed "true" history of transformers. If they say the Allspark was something the Quintessons left behind in their creation of the transformers then that would explain so much and i would totally shut my mouth up.- shadowhawk

Your arguments do not make any sense. Your primary objection to Beast Machines now seems to be that it has some conflicts with the G1 cartoon, as if the G1 cartoon is the only true continuity, or as if the Beast shows even claimed that they were in the same continuity as the G1 cartoon, which they most definitely did not. The Beast Wars writers repeatedly stated that their series was set in neither the G1 cartoon nor the G1 comic continuity. BW and BM are set in a new continuity which is very similar to the G1 cartoon but with some notable differences, some drawn from the comics, and some entirely from the writers' imaginations. This is why we always list the Beast era fiction as its own tree instead of placing it under G1, even though the Beast fiction is part of the G1 continuity family. Additionally, if all it would take to satisfy you is for a canonical source to claim "oh, yeah, the Quints left the Allspark there or something" then there is obviously no actual conflict. You can just assume that yourself. It is not canonically true without being stated by the fiction, but that is the case for a lot of stuff we all take for granted, such as (to pick an old example) that G1 cartoon Bumblebee does not frequently murder humans when he is off-camera. If two pieces of fiction are in conflict, but there is a simple and obvious solution, then take it. Your arguments make it sound as if you need to read the continuity and canon articles so you can drop this "hardcore" outlook on the "true" history. That outlook is completely indefensible. Transformers fiction is a horrendous mishmish of conflicting alternate universes which frequently bleed out retcons into each other, and not everything is descended from the one continuity that you happen to like most. --Steve-o 13:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I was going to say, basically, what Steve said. You argue that Beast Machines does not fit in with the "canon" history of the Transformers, but Transformers does not have a "canon". There are too many conflicting histories, and there have been since the beginning. All we have are "official", ie, Hasbro-Takara-approved, and "non-official".

Furthermore, you seem to be taking the G1 cartoon as "canon", but that is totally arbitrary. You might argue it has more weight than the comics because it was arguably more widely-known, but that would not explain the presence of comic elements in later stories.

The simple fact of the matter is, there is no story "canon", by definition, other than the real-world history of the toy franchise. For us to choose any one show or comic book or anything else over the other would a) be completely arbitrary, and b) be completely personal opinion, directly contradicting the purposes of an encyclopedia. --Sntint 16:31, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest also looking into the difference between canon and personal canon, as you seem to be confusing the former for the latter. - Dark T Zeratul 18:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Ai guys I already told you this whole thing is argumentative and while I admit i have my likes/dislikes in "what works for me," i remember somewhere in Hasbro that "tied" in the the whole thing even though it wasn't supposed to work out. I already said I didn't try to personalize or add anything intentionally biased. For the G1 comics I was too young to appreciate them so I can't really sufficiently argue there cause I was still in my diapers when that happened and so it never occurred to me how relevant the comic version was since all I know is the popularity of the cartoon and toyline following up to recent modern comic works. I'm more sufficient in the recent works of the comics and only G1 toon, the G1 comics is one aspect I can't say much since I only know scraps from the republished versions. I had a friend that got some of them, but it's hard on the eyes with their dot coloring scheme like the papers. It's nice to meet other guys that know so much, steve i also had a little trouble following you at times to retort and it's been a pleasure debating with you guys. Keep contributing!-shadowhawk

I have trouble following you, at times, too. However, I am glad this has all ended amiably. --Sntint 21:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

We are getting different Continuities mixed up here. There should have been a japanese 'beast wars 1' series but it was never made because they just showed the canadian cartoon instead. So you have 4 continuities involving beast wars:

Japanese G1 cartoons then Beast Wars 1(never made)then Beast Wars 2 and Beast Wars Neo cartoons.

Japanese G1 manga then Beast Wars 1(never made)then Beast Wars Metals then Beast Wars 2 and Beast Wars Neo manga.

Dreamwave comic then Headmasters US pilot, 3D comics, then canadian cartoons, Beast wars, Beast Machines with Botcon and IDW BW comics.<bw>

Beast Wars Uprising

Trying to cram these in to one continuity doesn't work. so for instance Beast machines does not go with the G1 cartoon so can contradict all it likes. (Despite some flaws it is actuallly my favourite transformer series).--Ryangut (talk) 12:14, 12 January 2018 (EST)

What in the actual fuck are you talking about. - Chris McFeely (talk) 12:32, 12 January 2018 (EST)

Character List

Hmm, I was limiting the list to characters with speaking parts (and not recordings, Like Megatron G1). I'll grant the protohumans, since they go "ook" a lot, but if we let in Snowstalker, are there other non-speaking animals we should include? Or should we leave her out? JW 17:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Japan Release Dates

Are we certain of the Japanese release dates of 1997 and 1999? JW 13:52, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

In Japan, the first season was on air during September, 1997 to March, 1998; while the second and third seasons were on air during October, 1999 to March, 2000. -- TX55 14:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

First CG Show

"Beast Wars is the first fully CGI TV-show in the world. Yesss."
Wouldn't that be Reboot, which came out the year before BW? JW 16:11, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Quebec dub

Did the series ended in Quebec or did it stop at the second season like in France ? Since the French dub was the only french-speaking one (unlike the G1 cartoon with two different dubs), I guess it stopped the same way, but it is not explained by the trivia. Could anybody confirm this ?--213.213.238.210 06:27, 2 June 2009 (EDT)

Expanded critic/reception

Just think it might be interesting Eire 14.13 July 02 (UTC)

Minor characters

http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Beast_Wars_(cartoon)&diff=420725&oldid=419239

Do we really need to list minor (or minor minor) characters such as Dinobot Clone or Cyber-Raptors? Just asking, really. --TX55^TALK 11:19, 29 January 2010 (EST)

We absolutely should NOT be listing those in the cast list. Especially the Cyber raptors, who no more qualify as "characters" than the transformation lock lens. That's ridiculous. --KilMichaelMcC 14:11, 29 January 2010 (EST)

Shout! Release

Shout's (Shout!'s?) releasing the series on DVD. As this is usually a big deal, I thought I'd add it. TheMZone 20:47, 14 October 2011 (EDT)

All Subordinate Predacons/Maximals equal?

Is it safe to assume/infer (not theorize/make a theory) that every Maximal or Predacon - except for Optimal Optimus, Megatron's Dragon form from Master Blaster, and Tigerhawk - is equal in strength, durability, & weaponry? I am wondering since Waspinator was able to damage Transmetal Cheetor and Pre-Transmetal 2 Blackarachnia was able to visibly damage Dinobot II, and most situations featuring the non-leading Maximals and Predacons.

Killing

Might it be worth noting none of the characters directly kill each other? Barring Depth Charge and Rampage, but that's more of a double suicide than anything depending on how you interpret jt. Avalanche (talk) 21:33, 28 January 2017 (EST)

If even the proposer admits that it's not a clear cut statement, then it probably doesn't deserve to be a note. --Khajidha (talk) 23:56, 28 January 2017 (EST)

Also it depends on how you define "characters." The Vok definitely kill Tarantulas. Inferno kills Sparkstalker. It also depends on what you mean by "directly." Megatron vaporizes Tigerhawk, Inferno, and Quickstrike with the Nemesis. And, yes, Depth Charge definitely kills Rampage, also killing himself. There's so much ambiguity there's not much a point to it. --ItsWalky (talk) 05:40, 29 January 2017 (EST)

Perhaps a different wording, "no character's personal weapons are fatal"? --Avalanche (talk) 01:09, 30 January 2017 (EST)

The more you need to qualify it, the less compelling it is to include. --ItsWalky (talk) 01:35, 30 January 2017 (EST)

It's not even interesting commentary to begin with. It's just a pointless trivia note for the sake of a trivia note. Saix (talk) 02:13, 30 January 2017 (EST)

And "no character's personal weapons are fatal unless required by the plot" is basically a rule for all Transformers fiction ever anyway. --abates (talk) 02:14, 30 January 2017 (EST)

Heck, you could extend that rule to basically all action-adventure cartoons. The GI Joes never seemed to actually shoot any Cobras, He-Man didn't hack Skeletor and company into bits with the Power Sword, ditto for Lion-O using the Sword of Omens, etc.... --Khajidha (talk) 09:34, 30 January 2017 (EST)

Character weapons were fatal to Transmutate. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 13:10, 12 January 2018 (EST)

The Trifid Nebula

During a rewatch of Beast Wars, I noticed the Trifid Nebula, made famous by the UK and later worldwide album art of King Crimson's Islands, makes an appearance numerous times. Would it be worth documenting its appearance in each episode it appears? And does anybody know if this is at all significant? Perhaps an animator was a KC fan...

Reception in Japan?

Would the reception of the show in Japan (including the sub vs. dub debate) be worth noting on the page, and if so, does anyone have tangible sources on how much people actually liked it or not? Samus Aran (talk) 12:08, 22 May 2019 (EDT)

It would be, if (and only if ) reliable sources can be found discussing it. Not your opinions and not a synthesis where you cite source A for one fact and source B for another and then draw a conclusion C that no source actually states. --Khajidha (talk) 12:29, 22 May 2019 (EDT)

Season 3 opener availability?

I seem to recall that as of about 10 years ago, the broadcast season 3 opening credits - with the new shot of the ships crashing - had never been released on home video; all companies used an odd re-edit instead. Has it been released since then? --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 18:37, 22 May 2024 (EDT)

The S3 episodes being officially uploaded to YouTube don't seem to have it, so I assume not? --abates (talk) 19:59, 22 May 2024 (EDT)

The official YouTube uploads just use the U.S. DVD versions of the episodes. --Sabrblade (talk) 11:11, 23 May 2024 (EDT)