Talk:Black redeco

I don't think G1 Skywarp really fits the description. He was before the trend of "black repainting" and he came out about at the same as the others, so I think Skywarp is just a redeco who happens to be black. Soundblaster is probably the first true example as an existing character who was redecoed as black. Also, I don't really see the point of this page, but that's OK. - Starfield 11:39, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

The page is about a very noteworthy trend in TF toys -- it definitely belongs. I agree about Skywarp. A true "black repaint" is generally an "evil clone" or some other such nonsense, made solely because OMG BLAKK AWZUM. Skywarp's a legitimate independent character. -- Repowers 11:53, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

I disagree. How can a "repaint" (using the term loosely) that is black, not be a "black repaint"? Black repaints are extremely easy ways of making more uses of a mold. That many of them have been "evil clones" and such is a secondary phenomenon. Just my opinion. Khajidha 01:36, 3 January 2010 (EST)

Skywarp is absolutely a black repaint. Saying he isn't because black repaints are usually evil clones or stealth mode variants is like saying Cybertron Longrack isn't really a construction vehicle redeco because construction vehicle redecoes are usually Constructicon homages: it's utterly ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

To take a slightly less "wtf are you stupid" approach, neither Scourge nor Soundblaster is a particularly strong match for our new arbitrarily restrictive definition either. Soundblaster would appear to have been motivated by "let's redeco Soundwave" and then black being selected as a color that looked nice, rather than the omgblackkewl mentality--otherwise, Twincast would be black as well (or perhaps white). Scourge is an evil clone in fiction, but not of the character whose toy he was redecoed from, which wasn't even from the same line--not at all in the same spirit as, say, Reverse Evolution Sixturbo. Universe Nemesis Prime has a similar problem; while he does look like the guy he's cloned from, that guy is fiction-only. If we're disqualifying Skywarp, then these three really shouldn't count either, which means we've kicked all the most prominent black repaints out of the black repaint club for not being black repainty enough.

Oh, and Skywarp was a new color scheme for Transformers, while Starscream and Thundercracker were in Diaclone, so he is a black version of a preexisting toy. --Andrusi

How do you even know Skywarp is even a repaint? Maybe he is the "paint" and Starscream and Thundercracker are the "repaint"s. - Starfield 16:10, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Well... Skywarp is the only deco not from the Diaclone line. So he's the repaint. Geewunling 16:17, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Yeah but Diaclone is technically a different toy than Transformers. They just happen to use the same mold, so that shouldn't count. Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp all debuted at the same time. If, say, Sunstorm was black, I could see the case for him being a black repaint. Riddlerj 16:24, 12 February 2010 (EST)

For me, Black repaints are usually a crass attempt to squeese a few more bucks out of an old toy. Something like Stalker Scorpinok or Nightwatch Prime Riddlerj 16:27, 12 February 2010 (EST)

ANY repaint is "a crass attempt to squeese a few more bucks out of an old toy", so how is that more relevant to the examples you gave than to any other repaint? Khajidha 18:48, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Because all three characters debuted at the same time. They are all repaints of one mold. It's like saying Huey is a ripoff of Dewey and Louie. Now, if a year later they came out with Shmuey, well Shmuey just seems like a lack of better ideas because the three original nephews are old news. I think the idea is that simply reissueing a previous (emphasis on "previous") mold in black or "evil" as opposed to a new, nifty character seems particually uninspired. Just my opinion. Riddlerj 16:19, 15 February 2010 (EST)

My god, this is ridiculous. "OH, SKYWARP IS A BLACK REDECO OF AN EXISTING TOY PREVIOUSLY AVAILABLE IN TWO NOT-BLACK COLOR SCHEMES THAT AREN'T TECHNICALLY TRANSFORMERS DESPITE BEING ESSENTIALLY IDENTICAL TO THEM, THEREFORE HE DOESN'T COUNT." And how the hell is he not a blatant excuse to try to get more money from an existing tooling? Was there some more "legitimate" reason Hasbro needed a third jet? No. Skywarp is a black repaint. --Andrusi 11:12, 23 February 2010 (EST)

He lack the traditional gold or aqua accents though! :3 -Derik 11:55, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Saying Skywarp is a black repaint completely misses the point of why this page exists and not, say, red repaint or green repaint. Also, this isn't a comprehensive list of all of them, but some notable examples. Soundblaster yes, Scourge oh GOD yes, probably Shadow Panther would be a good one, and the whole Nemesis Prime thing is kind of infamous. The fact that there is so much disagreement about Skywarp indicates that he's not a good representative example even if he might technically fit the criteria.--Jimsorenson 12:20, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The page exists because black redecos are common enough that they're thought of as their own "thing." Whether that is a good reason for the page to exist is another matter, but as the guy who made the page in the first place, I think I would have a pretty good idea of why it happened. --Andrusi, a.k.a. Can't-Stay-Logged-In-Man 14:04, 23 February 2010 (EST)

So is Blackarachnia a black repaint?

From the beginning this page has stated 1) Transformers are often repainted in black decos, 2) these decos are often evil clones. The first point is about toy manufacturing practice, the second about the storyline justification. It seems that Jim and several others want this page to be solely/primarily about the storyline justification; while Andrusi, myself and others see it as being primarily about the toy manufacturing process. Khajidha 14:16, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Skywarp existed well before the statement "Transformers are often repainted in black decos" was true. At the time, Transformers were not often repainted black, at least, not more than any other color. At best Skywarp can retroactively be called a "black repaint", which is weird. I just think he is a redeco that happens to be black. It is kind of like Blast Off and Blaster. Are they examples of blastification? They predate blastification. They aren't part of blastification, they just happen to have "Blast" in their name. - Starfield 14:30, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Well put, Starfield. But I was attempting to synthesize the two viewpoints into something that all could live with. Certainly, Skywarp is a black transformer toy where the mold has also been used for non-black color schemes, I can see how he'd be worth a mention. I do think that the timing makes it pretty sketchy, but hey, with a bit of a qualifier I'm fine with leaving it in. --Jimsorenson 14:31, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The whole "transformers are often repainted in black decos" is a backward looking statement, so I fail to see how the first instance can be excluded. There was a mold, it was released in other colors and in black. That IS the very definition of black repaint as a toy manufacturing process. Blaster and Blast-Off are excluded from Blastification because they did not have preexisting names that were changed to Blast-something or other. Moving on, I also appreciate Jim's attempt to synthesize the two viewpoints and actually like how he has done it. I consider the matter closed. Khajidha 15:11, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Yes, I thought your note on Skywarp was good. - Starfield 14:37, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The reasoning "the article mentions that black repaints are common, and Skywarp came out before they were common, so clearly he is not a black repaint" makes me want to hurt someone. The top of Kup's article says he's old--does that mean that, when he was younger, he wasn't Kup?

As for the blastification argument, Blast Off and Blaster are excluded because in both cases the "blast" makes sense in a meaningful way, which is contrary to the definition of the word--note that the article does consider Aquablast, who predates the concept by over a decade, to be an example. --Andrusi 14:54, 23 February 2010 (EST)

This article needs to be focused on toys with specific criteria beyond "is black", otherwise there's no reason to justify a lack of pages for red repaints, blue repaints, silver repaints... The term black repaint has specific connotations that separate it from any random repaint. - Cattleprod 19:20, 23 February 2010 (EST)

• sigh* Jim and Starfield are right. Skywarp is not a black repaint in the way that this article defines black repaints. (Will anyone hurt me if I say this should technically be at Black Redeco?) --ItsWalky 15:00, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The article defines black repaints (a term which it justifies in the second sentence: "The term is usually inaccurate, as the toys are almost always redecos and not actually repaints, but the name has stuck.") as redecos which are black, and mentions in the middle of the article that a lot of the time they're evil counterparts or stealth modes. --Andrusi 15:03, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Potentially key distinction: Black repaints are never the first/primary use of a mold. Skywarp was one of 3 simultaneous first uses of that mold, and thus wouldn't qualify any more than Scamper would. More to the point... just coloring a toy in black does not a black-repaint make. "Black repaint" is a concept, and while it's a bit squishy around the edges, merely "toys which are colored black" does not meet its base requirements. Movieverse Skywarp came out later-- but he's still not a black repaint of Starscream, because "Black Repaint" != "a black redeco."

Black Repaints are variants, special versions, or "reflections" of previously existing characters. Powerups, special-use decos, convention exclusives... or evil clones. The term is toyetic, but it's strongly entwined with fiction as well. The prototypical examples are probably JAFCON Optimus Prime (2000, black recolor of the 1984 toy, no story), E-Hobby Starscream (2001, got a bio-card relating to/explaining his colors) and Black Rodimus (2001, evil clone bio.) Throw in some historical notes-- Raideen got a black repaint (or was that in Diaclone only?) and Battle Conboy from CR as the first black repaint in mainstream fiction. -Derik 15:14, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Obviously first uses are not repaints, but the simultaneity of release means that Skywarp is not unambiguously first. Second, you consider it a concept that means what you have gone on to mention. Many others consider it only the reuse of a toy mold in dark colors. The article is phrased (and has always been phrased) in such a way that the evil redeco is not part of the basic definition. That's what is confusing. If the term was defined as a dark deco version of a toy released as an evil clone, then no Skywarp would not qualify. The way the article is, Skywarp does qualify. What you and others WANT the article to be is not necessarily what it has been. Khajidha 15:21, 23 February 2010 (EST)

No, I think black redecos are "part" of the whole Black-repaint concept... but only if they're same-character redecos.

Under this logic Deep Cover would not be considered a Black repaint. But if his bio made him an evil clone of Sideswipe, he would be. Conversely Soundblaster obviously is-- a "powered up version."

Suggest that the article should open The term "black repaint" refers to a concept..., and maybe we create a very short "Black redeco" article which helps defines the term in contrast-- "a black redeco is any toy which is redeco'd in black. Many but not all are also black repaints" or something like that. -Derik 15:31, 23 February 2010 (EST)

I'm willing to concede Black Repaints to including more than just redeco's of the same character. I just don't get the idea that any mold painted in black fits the defintition of "Black Repaint" as a concept. If that's the case, then the Insecticons are black repaints too. Heck, if Hasbro changed one detail on the molds that would become Trailbreaker and Ravage, then they're black repaints too. These seem more justified as toys as does Skywarp (Did you see the meager Decepticon ranks the first year, they needed at least three jets to fill them out). When the Transformesr brand were created, certain molds were selected and sometimes the color black was used on them. It's not the same as tossing out a previous mold under no other justification than "well, he's black now" which is the complaint behind "Black Repaint".Riddlerj 16:29, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Each of your counter examples is the first use of the mold as a Transformer, and thus would not be a "repaint" at all. If Skywarp had been released first and then the other two seekers, he would not be a repaint either. Khajidha 16:39, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The Insecticons were originally Insecter Robo in the Diaclone line in different colors. By your definition they are black repaints.Riddlerj 16:47, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Different toyline, doesn't count. Black repaints to me mean a reuse within the same toyline. Skywarp counts because his deco was decided on after those of his concurrently released moldmates. Khajidha 19:21, 23 February 2010 (EST)

But you don't know whose deco was decided on first. Like I said earlier, all three debuted at the same time so none of them can be repaints of each other. For all you know, Hasbro developed the colorscheme for Skywarp first then said, "Hell with it. Lets use the the same colorscheme's that other toyline used." You can't discount the Diaclone toys for the Insecticon argument but use diaclone to argue for Skywarp.Riddlerj 19:55, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Wow! this has gone on for a while. Maybe black repaints are in the eye of the beholder. I really like the version Jim used to describe Skywarp.Riddlerj 19:55, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Well, Riddlerj, and Khajidha, we appear to be at an impasse. "I really like the version Jim used to describe Skywarp." - Riddlerj. "Moving on, I also appreciate Jim's attempt to synthesize the two viewpoints and actually like how he has done it. I consider the matter closed." Khajidha. I think the two of you will have to just agree to agree on this matter.

Seriously, thought, I think we've got a working compromise here. Let's not waste time endlessly debating something that we mostly seem to agree is working as-is.--Jimsorenson 20:31, 23 February 2010 (EST)

There was a thing a while back, I think Hydra posted it to ATT back in the day, about black repaints as a Japan-specific thing, that it was just something that Japanese toy companies do. There's a black repaint of the MMPR Megazord that doesn't make any real sense, it's just cool. Anyone recall this, and know more about the cultural thing? -hx 23:11, 23 February 2010 (EST)

On a completely unrelated note

We should probably have a picture on this page of someone who doesn't turn into a lion. Anyone have a particular example they want? --Andrusi 15:12, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Either Scourge, as the most prominent "ascended" example, or just a pic of various black repaints like the Creamsicle Squad on Sunstorm (disambiguation) -Derik 15:20, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Stealth

Does anyone know for certain the first black repaint for stealth?--Jimsorenson 09:46, 27 February 2010 (EST)

Ever? GIJoe had "Night Force" as far back as 1988 or so, that was just black "night attack" repaints of toys from two-three years earlier. -hx 09:57, 27 February 2010 (EST)

I think limiting our scope to Transformers might be more productive.--Jimsorenson 10:27, 27 February 2010 (EST)

Did any Night Force versions of the GI Joe characters ever show up in TF fiction? If so, then a note similar to the one about Serpentor on Gold Plastic Syndrome might be appropriate. But ONLY if the Night Force version was used in TF fiction. Khajidha 10:57, 27 February 2010 (EST)

Seriously, I counted.

There are 11 black repaints of Movie Bumblebee toys, and then a couple more of the RPMs, Battle Chargers, etc. That's a shitton of STEALTH NIGHT STRIKE WHATEVER Bumblebee. -hx 10:17, 27 September 2013 (EDT)

Ludicrous Examples

I think Darkside Megatron is a dumb enough concept to be included here, based solely on the fact that he's an evil clone of Megatron. Voxel 07:11, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

Other possible considerations

(removed list) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JasonTFWIKI (talk • contribs){{#if:| {{{2}}}|}}.

There are 20 images already. You are going to need a compelling reason to add more. Saix (talk) 13:50, 6 December 2024 (EST)

Does this page need to exist?

I'm really struggling to see the point of this one. There's no meaningful information conveyed here beyond "transformers get redecoed in black more often than other colours, and sometimes it's for stealth, and sometimes they're evil clones". It's not even effective as a summary of fan terminology, because that was always "black repaint"! If people are really attached to it as a piece of historical context, I'm willing to listen, but as it stands this doesn't feel either informative or funny enough to stick around. --Broadside (talk) 21:30, 28 February 2026 (EST)

At the very least, I think this page ought to make the focus narrower: "black repaint" has historically been in reference to "Japanese limited-edition special-release redeco of a major-character toy, either as the same character or 'evil version' of the same". Which is an ongoing phenomenon. Which would be like... Soundblaster, no; Primitive Skateboarding Optimus, no, Nucleon Quest Convoy, yes; Dark Nitro Convoy, yes, etc. --M Sipher (talk) 22:19, 28 February 2026 (EST)

Late but I am seconding that if we are to keep this page it should be refocused on the fan terminology it purports to cover as opposed to listing individual toys it probably applies to and that fact-correcting said fan culture phenomenon was probably misguided. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 15:11, 29 March 2026 (EDT)