Talk:Neutro

So if Venin has been taken off of Venom's page and give his own article for Reasons, that means Groundbuster gets taken off of this one too, right? --KilMichaelMcC (talk) 17:31, 17 February 2015 (EST)

Given his different name, different deco, and different alt mode, I don't really see why he's on Neutro's page. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:34, 17 February 2015 (EST)

Well, without the G1 Venom deco, Venin has zero to do with Venom. But Groundbuster is still sculpted like Neutro. Jalaguy (talk) 17:45, 17 February 2015 (EST)

Maybe if you squint, I guess... The only similarity I see is the tread arms. And unlike Venin/Venom, there's not even a similarity in names. Is there any more solid indication that he's supposed to be Neutro, though? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 15:51, 18 February 2015 (EST)

Why was Venin split? In the absence of evidence that they are different the intent for them to be the same should prevail. Or is there some evidence that I am unaware of that actually distinguishes Venin and Venom as two characters? --Khajidha (talk) 17:13, 18 February 2015 (EST)

This is much latter, but the Legends comic recently released has G1 Neutro and Groundshaker as separate character. Not that I think they should be separated entirely. Escargon (talk) 14:28, 30 March 2019 (EDT)

"toys should take precedence over fiction"

What does this even mean? There's nothing inherent to a toy with different colors and a different name that says it's Neutro. Saix (talk) 09:31, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

You said ""Intention" is meaningless when fiction says otherwise, and this is a lazy revert".

I disagree. And Groundbuster is sculpted like Neutro, the only reason he has different colors is because he is gang-molded with Tailgate. Escargon (talk) 09:37, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Lots of toys get planned to be specific characters and then they aren't (Venin, Classics Menasor, Combiner Wars Blackjack, etc.). We still didn't care about "intention" then and your argument hangs solely on "sculpted like Neutro" while ignoring everything else that isn't Neutro (colors, name, fiction). Saix (talk) 09:47, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Legends fiction does not take precedence for a Hasbro toy. Escargon (talk) 09:51, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Additionally, now that other things (the TCG game, for instance) uses Venin as a name for Venom, I disagree with that toy being split out as well. Escargon (talk) 09:54, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

It's the only fiction and characterization it has (and it's been that way since 2015). It takes "precedence" because there is nothing to precede! "Looks like Neutro" is not characterization. Saix (talk) 11:11, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

There is a big difference between simply "looks like" and "was designed to be this character". Escargon (talk) 11:19, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Again, lots of toys are! Then they end up not being those characters. You're the one who keeps looping around to "he looks like Neutro so he must be Neutro despite everything else" because that is the only thing in your favor. Saix (talk) 11:22, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Lord, am I sick of arguing over these Generations Microns. However, the last time this came up, https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Swerve_(G1), Joe Kyde the designer was quoted as saying these characters were designed to be Sky High, Blast Master, and Neutro. They were given different names because those could not be used, for whatever reason. "Intended to be" and "sorta looks like" was enough to support several administrators and long-time contributors' desire to keep Flanker on Sky High. That line of reasoning would also support keeping Groundshaker/breaker/whatever on Neutro's page. His Legends appearances don't seem to do anything to establish those two have to be different characters in that timeline. --Xaaron (talk) 14:23, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Yellow Neutro and blue Groundshaker show up as separate characters in the Big Powered prologue comic. Saix (talk) 15:43, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Ah, yes. There he is. Then yeah, I agree with Saix, going back to my argument from https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Dropshot_(G1) -- if ONE source explicitly shows these guys as separate characters, and NO source explicitly identifies them as the same character...then they should be on different pages. (And, frankly, I don't see why the Dropshot decision was reversed either). --Xaaron (talk) 17:02, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

...except for the fact that Dropshots bio explicitly made him the same character, and the only reason why he was split was because of a one panel cameo in Spotlight Hardhead. And again, Neutro appears separately for one singular panel. Escargon (talk) 17:59, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

I think you're grasping for straws now. (I agree with him about Dropshot, but that's not the point of this particular discussion.) Saix (talk) 20:15, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

Dropshot's bio literally follows the same exact basic idea that "Dropshot likes to fight"; the reasons why are not important. As for Neutro, I think the actual designer for the toy's word is far more valuable than the gag-manga strip written and drawn by someone who, for all we know, has no idea they were meant to be the same character. Escargon (talk) 20:49, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

I think things that actually happened should take precedent over things that were intended to happen, but didn't, or your entirely self-serving and circular dismissal of Legends. --Xaaron (talk) 23:49, 24 May 2019 (EDT)

If this was in an IDW comic I'd feel the exact same way, so no. And is, in fact, in an IDW comic, with the previously given example of Dropshot. Escargon (talk) 00:16, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

Really, if we're going to get into it, this page should of been 5 split years ago if the idea that colors are enough to separate characters. The fact that only now the idea to split the page because of a singular cameo in one panel is utterly moronic. Escargon (talk) 00:19, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

I really don't see what the big issue here is. Is there something preventing Groundshaker from being his own unique person while Groundbuster continues to be Neutro? Is there something in Groundshaker's Legends toy bio that declares him to be the same person as his Hasbro-toy counterpart Generations Thrilling 30 Groundbuster? There's already a precedent set by the Targetmaster partner of Legends Swerve, Phaser, being a different guy from his Hasbro-toy counterpart, Flanker, so why couldn't the same apply for the Hasbro and Takara releases of the Targetmaster partner(s) of Tailgate? These Targetmasters were even packaged together in the same Takara-released set, even. --Sabrblade (talk) 01:04, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

So the American release of Groundbuster, who has no fiction, can stay on Neutro's page under the previous Sky High / Flanker precedent, while the Japanese release of Groundshaker, who has appeared alongside Neutro in Legends, gets an independent page? I'm fine with that. --Xaaron (talk) 09:31, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

That's what we did for a lot of Uprising split-out toy characters. Looks like it works here. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 15:54, 25 May 2019 (EDT)

I may be a little late to this, but we previously decided to use common sense and assume "intent" by treating the names on the back of the Cybertron Street Speed Mini-Con Team's packaging as an error, assuming that Backtrack and Oval were meant to keep the names of the Armada figures they were retooled and redecoed from rather than having their names swapped. We did the same for "Air Raid" and "Skydive" from the 2008 Universe Target exclusive "Aerial Rivals" five-pack, assuming the figure whose deco is inspired by Generation 2 Cyberjet Air Raid was meant to be named "Air Raid" and the one whose deco was inspired by the Generation 2 redeco of G1 Skydive was meant to be named "Skydive", even though the back of the packaging as well as the instructions say otherwise. Would you also disagree with these decisions?--Nevermore (talk) 17:24, 25 May 2019 (EDT)