Talk:Raikuru

I hadn't realized that this page was still here ... I think we should seriously consider moving this page to "Riker." When researching this book, the native speakers (and foreign experts) I consulted brought up the whole difference in the traditional rendition of Riker into Katakana. The consensus was that Raikuru was chosen for both its association with the Science Fiction character (remember, this is the series that also brought us Ewoks) as well as I think recycling. My advice was to go with either Riker or Recycle, and Riker seemed more in keeping with his actual name. Raikuru just doesn't make much sense to non-native speakers, and unlike the Trainbots or the Dinoforce doesn't have any kind of ring to it. (Plus, of course, there is no official English version of those characters, where as there is for Riker.) --Jimsorenson 21:54, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Raikuru was chosen for both its association with the Science Fiction character (remember, this is the series that also brought us Ewoks)

The character named Riker is from the same science fiction series that brought us Ewoks? Did I miss something?--Apcog 22:57, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Apparently so ;) No, Star Wars and Star Trek are not in the same universe. However, it's indicative of the culture of references in Victory. --98.149.157.5 23:02, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Should I take the roaring silence to be complete indifference? --Jimsorenson 02:55, 1 July 2009 (EDT)

Going ... going ... --Jimsorenson 23:21, 1 July 2009 (EDT)

Go for it you glorious bastard, go for it! -Derik 00:09, 2 July 2009 (EDT)

Seems like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, but whatevs. —Interrobang 00:54, 2 July 2009 (EDT)

"Raicle"/"Raikle"?

Now there is a move proposal to "Raicle" on the basis of being an homage to someone/something called "Raible". What is "Raible"? I am unfamiliar. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 19:20, 12 November 2024 (EST)

It's a theory of mine that I brought up on the Discord server (not to incite a move proposal, mind you, just something think about). The theory goes as such: This character's name is "Raikuru" (ライクル), he is depicted as a wise individual, and was designed to be mostly brown with a big mustache. Well, back in 1981, eight years before Toei produced Victory, they produced another giant robot anime that featured a wise individual who dressed in mostly brown with a big mustache, and his name was "Raible" (ライブル Raiburu), a very similar-sounding name to ライクル (Raikuru), simply swapping the ブ (bu) for ク (ku). Said anime was Beast King GoLion, better known in the west as Voltron: Defender of the Universe, in which Raible was renamed "Coran" (and voiced by Peter Cullen himself, but I digress). It's entirely possible that Raikuru was an homage to Raible, with one character in his name swapped out with a similar-sounding one to make his name sound more robot-y. Sure, without proof it's a stretch, but I did say it was merely theoretical. Saix, however, felt this theory of mine had some merit to it, as Japanese media has a tendency to make seemingly random references to other Japanese media (like how, for example, the Gorenger-original term "byūto" has taken on a life on its own in many Japanese media as a term to refer to whip-based techniques). --Sabrblade (talk) 19:46, 12 November 2024 (EST)

(Among other things.) I think Raicle/Raikle is closer to the original kana, along with being a much more likely reference than to TNG. Saix (talk) 19:55, 12 November 2024 (EST)

It should probably also be pointed out how the name was unlikely to have been a reference to the Riker character from Star Trek in the first place. Not only is the name "Riker" rendered in Japanese as ライカー (Raikā) and not ライクル (Raikuru), but TNG season 2 (when Riker first appeared with facial hair) didn't start airing on American television until November 21, 1988, which is less than a year before Raikuru's first episode appearance in Victory on August 1, 1989. The overlap time (if there was any) shared between TNG season 2 being dubbed in Japanese and that Victory episode's production would have been incredibly slim, too small and tight for the Japanese creators of Victory to have become aware of the bearded Riker in order for the mustachioed Raikuru to have been named after him (and, again, they likely would have named him "Raikā", instead, had that been the case), making it highly implausible that there was ever an intended connection between "Raikuru" and "Riker". --Sabrblade (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2024 (EST)

Isn't the move proposal superseded by him being named "Riker" in English language fiction? Like, say, Mighty Stra or any of those guys from Transformers Online? —TheLastGherkin (talk) 04:09, 13 November 2024 (EST)

I'm always leery of deferring to English-language names that only exist because of a mistake. - Chris McFeely (talk) 07:33, 13 November 2024 (EST)

Right. Many of those misconceived names are because of us. I feel it's our job to correct and align to the original intention of the name when possible. He can stay Riker for BWU, but we've thankfully loosened up on "English name" pedantry when said English name is a corruption of the Japanese name. (Violengiguar, etc.) Saix (talk) 10:18, 13 November 2024 (EST)

Although, now that I think about it, we should probably also consider whether to go with "Raicle" or perhaps "Raikle", as I could see someone looking at "Raicle" and misinterpreting it as "Ry-sle" instead of the intended "Ry-kle", due to how the letter C has two sounds in English (to say nothing of how "ai" sounds in English versus Japanese, but I admit that one might be pushing it). --Sabrblade (talk) 10:37, 13 November 2024 (EST)

People still say "Seacon" wrong. It's not really something we can control. 10:51, 13 November 2024 (EST)

On the other hand, I notice how visually similar in design that ブ and ク look to each other (which makes me think I might actually be onto something with this theory). If we wanted to try and reflect that visual similarity in the English-lettered spelling, the shapes of "b" and "k" do look more similar to each other than "b" and "c" do. ;-) --Sabrblade (talk) 12:38, 13 November 2024 (EST)

I personally think b and c are more analogous, since both have that semicircle, but I'm not that fussy about the spelling. Saix (talk) 12:42, 13 November 2024 (EST)

"B" and "K" also look closer when uppercased, both having a square-ish silhouette, vs. "B" and "C" being squared vs. round, hehe. --Sabrblade (talk) 12:50, 13 November 2024 (EST)

"A mistake" seems like a mischaracterisation. If Sorenson was aware of how the katakana for "Raikuru" differs from that of William T "Raikā", the alteration of name in his published sources is more of a deliberate localisation, surely? —TheLastGherkin (talk) 11:24, 13 November 2024 (EST)

I mean, it was still ultimately "made up" here first in an unofficial context by Jim who then used it for his works. And it's still based on "Raikuru" either way and the unwillingness to just use the straight Romanization till better etymology was found. (Not a slight against Sorenson; he can do whatever he wants for his work, but I think a wiki has different considerations when presenting a character.) And, at the end of the day, if it makes later official sources use a more accurate name, the better. Saix (talk) 12:04, 13 November 2024 (EST)

From the timing of when this article was moved to when the Ark II book was released, it seems Jim was already set on using the name "Riker" in the book before the page was moved. But the "Riker" name was always based on guesswork, as it seems no one at the time seemed to really know what "Raikuru" meant or was based on, and just assumed that it "could be" the Star Trek character. But as I explained above, the time between TNG season 2 being dubbed into Japanese and the production time of Raikuru's first appearance in Victory was too tight a window for a connection between the two to have been plausible. --Sabrblade (talk) 12:54, 13 November 2024 (EST)

It's the other way around – The Ark II was published in 2008 and called him "Governor Riker", and Sorenson moved the page after explaining his reasoning in 2009. — TheLastGherkin (talk) 13:01, 13 November 2024 (EST)

Mhmm, I looked mainly at the months and days and misread/overlooked the years. That's on me. But the name was still just a guess. --Sabrblade (talk) 13:08, 13 November 2024 (EST)

Thanks for the correction. I think my main point still remains, though. Those books attempted to replicate Japanese terminology for the JG1 series ("Destron", "Cybertron", "Deszaras", etc.), and "Riker" was part of that like "Violn Jiger", which we disregarded because we found the actual etymology. (Same for "Jaruga", "Trizer", etc.) Saix (talk) 13:12, 13 November 2024 (EST)

Well damn. So Beast King GoLion Raible wasn't the source of the name? I really like the page title "Raikle" as an attempt to balance all our problems with this character. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 21:36, 24 November 2024 (EST)