Talk:The Transformers (franchise)

So I'm looking over the various storybook stuff that Steve-o has, and finding that we don't have much of it, and what we do have is pretty much lost in the void. We need to tie all this stuff together. The Franchise Navigation box should include some kind of link to it -- even if that means we have to split our current books page into four or five pieces, by franchise. Each series of books should have its own navigation chain, leading back to the publisher's page. So, something like this:Franchise nav box --> Books --> Publishers --> Individual titles Objections to the splitting-up-the-books page? (heck, it should be a category anyway, as opposed to a multi-franchise list.) -- Repowers 20:48, 4 December 2008 (EST)

Nope. Go for it. I've been thinking for a while that once you factor in all the Armada stuff... man, that's a lot of books. --M Sipher 04:55, 5 December 2008 (EST)

Move

As Thomas Jefferson once said, "Buggery is the Genus, of which Sodomy and Bestiality are the species."In that hierarchical mind, "Generation 1" isn't a franchise-- or at least not as we're treating it. It's an umbrella franchise, just like the Unicron Trilogy or the live-action film series. I think that, in the long term, it'll make our lives easier if our treatment reflects that. -Derik^Talk 11:39, 11 February 2009 (EST)

• Generation 1 (umbrella franchise)
• The Transformers (franchise)
• Headmasters
• Masterforce
• etc...
• Generation 2

The Japanese stuff, certainly. All of the toys in those were sold with the plain "Transformers" label. G2, I'm not so sure, but if you feel so…. (What about Machine Wars?) —Interrobang 11:53, 11 February 2009 (EST)

I think you're right that we need to address the far-reaching uses of the term "Generation 1", but I disagree with your proposal for a few reasons:

1. "The Transformers" is an outdated term for the pre-G2 franchise. Yes, when it came out, that was its name, but the moment "Generation 2" was created, "The Transformers" went from being a specific franchise to being the name of the overall brand. Since then, countless official sources have confirmed the use of "Generation 1" to mean "pre-G2". Generations and The Ultimate Guide are two I can cite immediately, and I'm sure there are far, far more. (For another example of a later name superseding a previous one, note that we don't call Universe: Featuring the Wreckers "The Wreckers" or "Enter the Wreckers".)
2. What you're calling "Generation 1 (umbrella franchise)" is actually just a continuity family, as is the Unicron Trilogy. The 2008 Universe is a true umbrella franchise, where Hasbro is actively using a new brand to subsume pre-existing ones. The big-tent G1 and the UT are both more artificial constructs on our part to classify storytelling trends.
3. If we do create The Transformers (franchise) at all, it should redirect to (or even replace) Transformers brand. Making them two different things is confusing. I also believe that we SHOULD have a Generation 1 (continuity family) to cover all of the far-reaching uses of the term. Generation 1 (franchise) can remain as it is, and all of the bases are covered with a minimum of confusion.

How does that sound?

- Jackpot 23:16, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

If I may throw in my two cents, most of the fandom refers to "The Transformers" as "G1" or "Generation 1". In fact, the only time I've heard anyone call it "The Transformers" is when they specifically mean the G1 cartoon. I think that "The Transformers" stuff should re-direct to the "Generation 1" equivalent.

- Monty Prime

The whole "G1" thing needs some sorting out. Part of what we have to decide is if the wiki is going to consider the Japanese series (Headmasters, Maserforce, etc.) as "franchises." I just found out that they technically aren't because the toys were all released simply as "The Transformers." But we have franchise pages for them. (see The Headmasters (franchise), Super-God Masterforce (franchise), etc). I happen to think it would be extremely useful to consider them franchises even if it is fudging Transformers history a bit. They have their own names and logos and whatnot, so I think it depends a little on what you consider a "franchise" to be. Is it just how the toys are packaged?

I agree with Derik's grouping except I wouldn't group G2 under the G1 umbrella franchise. the G1 continuity family, yes.

• Generation 1 (continuity family)
  • Generation 1 (umbrella franchise)
    • The Transformers (franchise)
      • Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers
      • Transformers 2010
    • The Headmasters (franchise)
    • Super-God Masterforce (franchise)
    • etc.
    • Operation Combination (franchise)
  • Generation 2 (franchise)
  • Classics (2006)

Finally, clearing this up would help finalize another open issue the wiki has. - Starfield 15:01, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

"Part of what we have to decide is if the wiki is going to consider the Japanese series (Headmasters, Maserforce, etc.) as "franchises." I just found out that they technically aren't because the toys were all released simply as "The Transformers.""

Uh... no, that's not true. I've got Japanese packaging, and it's got the individual franchise logos on them. --M Sipher 15:35, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Oops. I was thinking of Beast Wars II and Neo. Carry on... - Starfield 16:08, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

most of the fandom refers to "The Transformers" as "G1" or "Generation 1".

"Generation 1" is not the name of a franchise, or a television show, or a toyline, or a cartoon. Those things were named "The Transformers", and there's really no valid reason to call them anything else. Just because it makes them a little tougher to disambiguate is not enough reason to call them something that isn't their name.

It hardly seems necessary to point out how terrible an idea it is to rename something from its official name based on "what the fandom does". -- Repowers 15:51, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Please see my point #1 above. There are tons of official sources telling us that what was once called "The Transformers" is now retroactively "Generation 1". And if you don't think that's a valid interpretation, then please explain what actually IS happening when the back of a Universe package says "GENERATION 1: The Epic Original". Is Hasbro somehow LYING about the validity of the term as a substitute for what was once just "The Transformers"?

(And, to nip a tangent in the bud, I will clarify now that I'm only making this argument in relation to the G1 franchise, not the individual expressions of it (like the cartoon, comics, etc.) The official sources I'm using as evidence all use the term to refer to the franchise as a whole, as contrasted with G2, MW, BW, etc.)

- 216.231.37.133 16:36, 12 May 2009 (EDT)