Talk:FIRRIB

So, what's the official position, right now?--GUIGUI 18:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

There is none. --ItsWalky 18:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Clever of them. But were Frenzy and Rumble featured in Dreamwave or IDW? And if yes, in wich colors? --GUIGUI 19:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Dreamwave was inconsistent. IIRC, they were cartoon colors in the stories and toy/comic colors in the MTMTE profile books. They have not appeared yet in IDW. (Alternators Rumble is red, however.) --ItsWalky 19:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I believe that the few times that they appeared in Dreamwave's comics, they were always together and so it was impossible to tell which was which. - Dark T Zeratul 23:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

If we assume that the use of piledrivers indicates that it was Rumble, then the little fella was blue in the first DW G1 miniseries, but after that, Dark T's right, they were always together and were never singled out, so it's impossible to tell who's who based on colour. Then, they were done in toy colours for MTMTE. - Chris McFeely 00:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The "Who's who" in the back of the War and Peace TPB identifies them as their toy colors. --ItsWalky 01:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

This article should be moved to FIBRIR, with RIBFIR as a redirect. -Derik 23:47, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Change To Chart

A whole new approach to the chart might better convey the information. Tufte says that if you're trying convey info about color, and you can print in color, you'd be a fool not to use it. Maybe like so?

	Frenzy	Rumble
US cartoon	Red	Blue
Japanese cartoon	Blue	Red
US toys	Blue	Red
Japanese toys	Blue	Red
Marvel Comics	Blue	Red
Dreamwave comics	Blue	Red
Devil's Due comics	Red	Blue

(We keep the words "red" and "blue" for people who are blind or just color blind, for those not using color monitors, or using text browsers, etc.) JW 15:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this chart is much nicer and clearer than the one in the article now. I vote for switching it in immediately.

If we want to keep the FIBRIR, we could do something like this:

G1 toys	FIB	RIR
Marvel Comics	FIB	RIR
US cartoon	FIR	RIB
Japanese cartoon	FIB	RIR
Dreamwave comics	FIB	RIR
Devil's Due comics	FIR	RIB

I also removed the Japanese Toy row since the toys were the same in all markets and put the rows in order of release.--FortMax 17:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely certain we do want to keep FIB and RIR in the chart. I personally think "providing information" is a slightly higher priority than "being a supportive environment for Transformers fans." Actually using the words "Frenzy" and "Blue" provides the information most clearly. Using "FIB" and "RIR" where not necessary is being fannish for its own sake. (Note that I do think there is a place in this Wiki for fannishness for its own sake, most certainly, but I don't think it should be priority #1.) JW 18:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think JW's table is the best option. Use wikitable markup instead of HTML, though. Simpler to look at/edit. --Steve-o 01:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Using Fib or RiR or whatever is MUCH WORSE. The point is clarity. Using JWs original words Red and Blue is much clearer and and simpler and hence much better.

Since I'm seeing a lot of approval, and I figured out how to do a colored table in Wiki markup, I'll implement it now. (With FortMax's suggested modification of consolidating the "toys" entries, and doing 'em in release order.) JW 02:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Good thing there was a warning, or I would have changed it to:

	Frenzy	Rumble
Toys	Blue	Red
Marvel comics	Blue	Red
US cartoon	Red	Purple
Japanese cartoon	Blue	Red
Dreamwave comics	Blue	Red
Devil's Due comics	Red	Blue

-The Ultimate One

Not quite. See the new topic I made. The RIBFIR Dude 20:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

New Chart Includes 1986 Movie

I know most of you are against the purple, but I think we should make the chart look like this because it includes the 1986 movie where Rumble actually was blue:

	Frenzy	Rumble
Toys	Blue	Red
Marvel comics	Blue	Red
US cartoon	Red	Purple
Japanese cartoon	Blue	Red
1986 Cartoon Movie	Red	Blue
Dreamwave comics	Blue	Red
Devil's Due comics	Red	Blue

-The RIBFIR Dude 20:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I prefer it the way it is. Not least because there's a scene in the movie where they're both red, and why invite more confusion? JW 21:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but that was just an animation glitch that was only for about two seconds. The RIBFIR Dude 21:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

And if you watch, you can clearly see that Rumble is definetly blue and not purple in the movie. The RIBFIR Dude 16:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Are they actually named in the movie? In the brief scene where they're two different colors? JW 16:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but you could check the script and see who said what. (The blue one said "uncrazimatic") The RIBFIR Dude 16:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

In the movie, Rumble is exactly the same colors he always is in the cartoon. Maybe you're overestimating how purple cartoon Rumble is. --ItsWalky 16:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about that. I'd double check, but my G1 DVDs were on loan from a buddy of mine and I already gave them back. The RIBFIR Dude 16:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

If you can provide screenshots from the TV cartoon and the movie, showing a substantial difference in coloration, and the appropriate excerpt from the script, I'll reconsider my position on making changes to the table. Otherwise, best to leave things as they are. JW 17:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think I'll end up ever doing that. So we may as well leave it as it is. But keep this on the talk page just in case. The RIBFIR Dude 17:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and did it, and I don't see any difference between the two. Semysane 22:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Guy's banned, anyway. —Interrobang 23:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I think he was remembering the one scene where Rumble says "First we crack the shell, then we crack the nuts inside!" where he is blue instead of his usual purple. MR. Q (I'm a GUY) 16:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

G2

I'm pretty sure the unreleased G2 Go-Bot "Rumble" was primarily WHITE. --M Sipher 13:44, 14 February 2008 (EST)

He seems equal parts white and red. With teal and black showing up in robot mode. [1] [2] --74.57.3.251 19:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC) (Detour at work)

FIRRIB

How'd this page end up at FIBRIR, anyway? A search through ATT's archives shows that "FIRRIB" is the most common use (664 occurrences) (and personally, it's the version that springs immediately to mind for me.) FIBRIR is in second place with 346 occurrences. RIRFIB=188; RIBFIR=74. And all that notwithstanding, the original "movement" appears to have been started as FIRRIB (for the obvious purpose of debunking those silly, obviously-totally-wrong toy catalogs, natch.) See here.

So, short version: this page should really be moved. -- Repowers 19:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

FIBRIR FOREVER!

Or, in a more sensible mode, I wouldn't have a problem with that. JW 15:06, 14 February 2008 (EST)

I think it should stay as is, solely because there are more instances of FIBRIR. And RIR even when FIP or FITAA. --74.57.3.251 21:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC) (Detour)

But it's a fandom term, regardless of whether it's accurate or not. The actual original version should be the article's name and central usage. (And anyways, "FIRRIB" flows off the tongue a bit more smoothly than "FIBRIR". : ] -- Repowers 21:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd rather see it at FIRRIB, myself. - Chris McFeely 21:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

In the spirit of the article, I'm going to have to say FIBRIR to that. --ItsWalky 21:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

FIRRIB may have been coined first, but I would imagine FIBRIR came right on its heels. Considering that FIBRIR is... pretty obviously the more solid position to take (outside of a single albeit prominent continuity) I think it's better for the article to stay where it is. The article covers both the fandom's silly argument as well as the complete story. And as McFeely's edits put quite nicely, FIRRIB is a mistaken aberration. We shouldn't name the article after it. --Steve-o 19:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

You're going on the position that there's a "right" and a "wrong" to the whole debate in the first place, which is pretty antithetical to the wiki's general approach to things. They're both right. One's right in the cartoon and a couple of other places, and the other's right elsewhere.

If not for the FIRRIB position, the entire debate wouldn't exist. Also, the first FIBRIR shows up about 6 months after FIRRIB, in Nov. '94. I don't support naming the article after the secondary, reactionary counter-argument, rather than the position that started and popularized the whole thing, regardless of how "right" or "wrong" one or the other may be. It's like replacing Trukk not munky with [[PRIME=TRUCK AND PRIMAL=GORILLA]]. -- Repowers 16:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

So what about this?

--FortMax 20:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

No, that clearly says "RuNble" is red, so we're obviously dealing with a third cassette here who, uh...WHAT'S THAT BEHIND YOU!?--Apcog 20:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe "Runble" is Enemy's real name. He should team up with Lazerbeak. JW 20:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Teletraan's quoting the production bible. The other Decepticon screens take other quotes out of the bible, too. - Chris McFeely 21:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I think this pic should be included in the article, as evidence of how schizophrenic the cartoon production process was, if nothing else. I would crop it to remove the watermarks, first. Did Rumble appear elsewhere in the same episode? JW 16:08, 14 February 2008 (EST)

I'm pretty sure Rumble did appear in the episode given that this is where Megatron used everyone's powers. Anyway, I was going to take a screencap of this from my DVDs when I get back to my apartment. The current image is one I yanked off my photobucket account. --FortMax 21:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

After Megatron punches the ground to cause an earthquake, we see Rumble turn to the other 'Cons and point to himself. At least he didn't give the AREN'T YOU PROUD speeches like Starscream.... --Thylacine 2000 21:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

IDW

Rumble and Frenzy do show up in Megatron Origin. I don't have access to a scanner right now, but I have the comic in front of me. Neither of the two are named, but on page 16 of #1, the little bugger who deploys his pile drivers, who I assume is Rumble, has red markings. So it looks like FIBRIR applies for IDW. If anyone could back this up with a pic, it would be appreciated.--Nightshade83 21:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Who uses piledrivers is not a good way to determine who is whom. In the cartoon, both use piledrivers. --ItsWalky 21:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

That's why I pointed it out on the talk page. I don't have issues 2-4 with me right now (away from home at school -- issue 1 got mailed to me by a friend), but I don't think they said which one was which anywhere in Origin. Still, I considered this little bit of trivia at least worth discussing. --Nightshade83 21:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Devil's Due

Where in the DD Joe crossovers does it indicate which is which? I've pored over the first one, and though both show up, neither seem to be named, unless I missed it. --ItsWalky 22:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

When Bumblebee punches the blue guy in #3, he says "I don't THINK so, RUMBLE!". - RolonBolon 23:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Aha. --ItsWalky 20:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Robot Heroes

Well, going by the photos released from the Toy Fair, there's gonna be a Robot Heroes Rumble... and he's Red. Semysane 05:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

And the Diamond Select Toys busts have Rumble blue and Frenzy red. Also, it looks like the red Frenzy comes with Ravage and Blue Rumble comes with Laserbeak and Ratbat. --FortMax 18:57, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Movie Frenzy

His only coloring (besides silver, which doesn't really count as a color) is his BLUE EYES. Should that be mentioned here? MR. Q (I'm a GUY) 15:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

This article is only about the G1 characters (despite occasional jokes elsewhere in the wiki). JW 16:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh. But if Rumble is in TF2, and looks just like Frenzy except having red eyes...?MR. Q (I'm a GUY) 19:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

If that should happen, I certainly think it would bear mention here. JW 19:08, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Of course, we've no evidence of that yet.--Rosicrucian^Talk 19:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

We'll just have to wait and see. MR. Q (I'm a GUY) 19:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

IDW Comics

Have they actually identified which is which yet in IDW? JW 11:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Warpspeed Hellscream says: As of AHM, Rumble is red and Frenzy is blue. Dammit. I believe in the FIBRIR side of this argument. FIBRIR 4ever! Screamer 05:34, 11 September 2009 (EDT)

And here's my footage of IDW's panel at SDCC 2008. At 00:28, you can hear me ask Shane who is who, and the disappointment among the FIRRIB supporters. --Lonegamer78 07:47, 11 September 2009 (EDT)

Er. Shouldn't the FIBRIR supporters be happy that Frenzy is blue and Rumble is red? ;) (Me, I prefer Rumble as blue, darnit...) --Jeysie 17:33, 11 September 2009 (EDT)

Ah Crap. 'Warpspeed Hellscream, aka me, you stupid skid plate. I'm actually FIRRIB. Sorry. Watched G1 cartoon at start of my fandom, so this why.

Article namechange?

Just a tiny suggestion, but maybe this page should be renamed "frenzy/rumble controversy" or "RIBFIR and FIBRIR" to avoid the article looking biased? (like i said,just a tiny suggestion) Decepticon Rhinox 18:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the less seriously we take this "controversy" the better.--Rosicrucian^Talk 18:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Shattered Glass Continuity?

I know it's a G1 derived continuity, but I don't think it's quite the same as IDW or Dreamwave, and it certainly adds nothing to the FIRRIB argument, because their colors are based on the Autobot mini-cassettes, with no reasoning behind which cassette got which new colors. So in short, I don't think it should be on the chart. Opinions? Rideonshootingstarxx 00:56, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

I don't really think it should be on the chart, either. Without looking, as I recall, there are a few on there that I think are examples of dogpiling, and not useful information. --ItsWalky 01:02, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

Hmmmmm. I don't know what Kids Stuff is, and I could maybe live without the few Frenzy-less sections (Alternators, Robot Heroes, and that Kids Stuff. Ladybird too?) So maybe cut it down to the sections with BOTH Rumble and Frenzy and um... I don't care for G2 on there either. None of those help with the ARGUEMENT, they just document colors of Rumble and Frenzy. So...? -Rideonshootingstarxx 01:10, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

Oh, we should definitely keep the Robot Heroes and Alternators things. Those are important. They show that Rumble is red (and that Frenzy is blue is implied). But I agree on G2. G2 and Shattered Glass are irrelevant to the discussion. --ItsWalky 01:56, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

The Insecticomics and Lilformers thing

So, uh... are we going to need a consensus on this? --NCZ 17:42, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

My vote in general? Only go with non-canon comics from people who've actually worked on Transformers. Saves arguments based solely on perception of quality. --Jeysie 17:59, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

Yeah, that's what I thought. Personally, I think Lilformers has a bit more credibility since Matt Moylan has actually worked on Transformers, and Insecticomics is (I believe) a fan comic. But let's wait for more responses before we go ahead. --NCZ 18:01, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

It's not just that, it's also that Moylan's comic is a single panel that gets to the point and comically "solves" the question. It's also actual art, and some nice one at that. The Insecticomics thing is 7 panels, five of which are just two characters arguing the matter... and then Inferno shows up and hangs them by their feet. Not exactly what I'd call funny, or even related to the FIRRIB debate beyond the five arguing panels. Plus... it's blurry photos of toys. --Detour 19:41, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

Lilformers yes, Insecticomics no is my vote.--Jimsorenson 20:00, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

Detour perfectly summed up the reasons the Insecticomics strip should go away and Lilformers should stay. --Khajidha 21:14, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

All right. Five votes and all of them are for Lilformers to stay and Insecticomics to leave. Have we reached a verdict? --NCZ 21:27, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

We have. Innocent! --Blot 00:15, 12 May 2010 (EDT)

Release the Sharkticons! --Khajidha 10:23, 12 May 2010 (EDT)

WFC

Frenzy and Rumble were featured in War for Cybertron, which has now been confirmed as being a new universe. How does it belong on the article now? --NCZ 21:54, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

It already is in the article, is it not? At least, on the graph. --ItsWalky 21:55, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

Yeah, it is, but I was just wondering since the rest of the article seems to be G1-based. And if we do end up including it, what about the other portrayals of the characters? Then again, since the whole debate is mostly rooted in G1, it probably should stay that way. Dragging it into other continuities might be overkill. --NCZ 21:57, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

I agree with this. They're not from a new continuity so not technically part of the debate (that is, unless TF:Prime stuff later on makes Frenzy blue again). --Detour 22:14, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

This wiki's stance on the matter.

So would there be any point in mentioning why we've chosen to use the images we have for the character's articles' respective mainpics. Flydie 19:24, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

Because the Marvel Comics image for Frenzy makes for a funny caption while the storybook image for Rumble features a very toy-accurate Rumble punching a hole in Tracks. --Detour 19:36, 31 March 2013 (EDT)

Question about the Japanese cartoon...

Okay, so in the original American TF cartoon Rumble is blue and Frenzy is red while in the Japanese cartoon, Rumble is red and Frenzy is blue. My question is, is the blue robot the same character called by different names in the two markets or does a different character perform the actions of the blue robot in each version? (And, of course, the complementary question applies to the red robot.) --Khajidha 08:57, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

The Japanese dub just swaps the names back (since that's infinitely easier to do than altering the animation). As a result, in Japan, Frenzy was around all the time doing earthquakes and stuff, whilst Rumble is the guy that hardly ever showed up. Jalaguy 09:44, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

I get what was done, I am asking about the question of identity and cross-continuity equivalence. Is the blue guy "doing earthquakes and stuff" the same being under different names in the two continuities or not? --Khajidha 10:55, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

I think it is probably most likely that Rumble's name is "Frenzy" in Japan, and vice-versa - if they ever got bios in Japan (I have no idea) that would probably help us know. -LV 11:26, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

Rose by any other name and all that, if I understand your question correctly then I think the "blue robot" should be treated as a character on his page, who just happens to trade names with the "red robot" in several media. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KrytenKoro (talk • contribs).

I doubt Frumble would have had their bios swapped (is that what you're supposing, essentially?) in Japan just to account for the cartoon mucking up. Far more likely that they just swapped the names back for the cartoon and the Japanese just had to deal with the fact that the sonic attack guy was doing earthquakes, in the same way that the rest of the world just had to deal with the fact that the red guy was blue. Jalaguy 15:18, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

So like how the sonic attack guy was doing earthquakes in the US as well? As far as I can recall, red-Frenzy NEVER did any kind of sonic attack thing... just did the same pile-driving earthquake stuff purple-Rumble did. --M Sipher 15:49, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

And I just checked Rumble & Frenzy's Japanese techs...

• Original line, Frenzy's does mention the inner drum that messes up enemy circuits. But... Rumble's makes NO mention of the earthquakes WHATSOEVER. Just a machinegun and missile.
• TF 2010 release, I only see Frenzy on the list, looks like Rumble didn't make it to year 2. The tech retains the inner drum... but adds "Hammer Arm" as a listed weapon.

So yeah. I think that settles that. --M Sipher 15:55, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

Huh, so they did kind of turn Frenzy into earthquake guy. Also, I'd totally forgotten that the show's red guy had piledrivers too. G1 cartoon, you so crazy. Jalaguy 16:05, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

I get what Khajidha is saying. Essentially he is pointing out that the chart doesn't give the whole picture.

	"Frenzy"	"Rumble"
US cartoon	Red (rarely seen dude)	Blue (major character)
Japanese cartoon	Blue (major character)	Red (rarely seen dude)

The chart flip-flops the characters around at that point. It isn't entirely comparing apples to apples. - Starfield 16:15, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

So... what does this mean for their character pages? Do they need fixing? Should Rumble's Japanese name be listed as "Frenzy" and Frenzy's Japanese name be listed as "Rumble"? - Starfield 13:57, 4 July 2013 (EDT)

Should US Masterpiece get a separate entry on the chart?

I feel like it's notable that Hasbro went with the FIBRIR colors since of late, they've been doing their own thing. Even though it's still the Masterpiece line, the way Hasbro handles it, it's effectively a separate entity from the Japanese MP line. Larkmarn 09:28, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

Since both MP lines follow FIBRIR for their Frenzy and Rumble toys, I don't see a need to add another box pair repeating the same thing already covered by a box pair neutrally named just "Masterpiece". It can and easily does cover both Hasbro's and Takara's MP toys without having to specify which versions since both versions go the same route. --Sabrblade 22:01, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

WFC and Kre-O

I think that the WFC/Prime and Kre-O comic/toy incarnations of Frenzy and Rumble should also be listed on this page. They aren't G1 versions of the characters, but they are red and blue paired versions of Frenzy and Rumble based on their G1 versions, and thus they are relevant to the debate. FIRRIB was a purely G1 issue when the only paired-up blue and red characters called Rumble and Frenzy were the G1 versions, but I would argue that it isn't any more. Riptide (talk) 12:20, 26 August 2015 (EDT)