MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

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Continuity / Timeline

I'm trying to make some sense of how the various major continuities are handled, overview-wise. Some have their own continuity page; IDW's just got a timeline, with overview stuff shoved here and there among the individual miniseries. Some don't have anything. Some, like the G1 cartoon, are not much more than lists. The ones that exist tend to be hard to find, aren't categorized uniformly, etc... is there a master format for this stuff?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Repowers (talk • contribs) 12:15, 29 October 2007.

There is no master format for continuity pages. Please feel free to make one! It would be a good thing to have! --Steve-o 00:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
You know, I think it would be hot if once we got more timelines up, we began putting Chronology links to the timetable on the story pages. Several Dreamwave comic pages have them, and I think IDW comics should too, since IDW really isn't telling the story in a linear fashion.--Zodberg 09:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea. --MistaTee 13:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Would it make sense to have an overview writeup at the start of each timeline, a few paragraphs or so? Or should "continuity" be a separate page? Where should a chronological list of issues go -- publisher's page, continuity page, timeline page? That's not such a problem with, say, Marvel G1, but Dreamwave's a little messier, IDW's all over the place, and gods help you if you want to sort out the mess that is Marvel UK. -- Repowers 14:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
A continuity page should have the following (in my opinion):
* A one-paragraph description of the continuity, not more than a few sentences long.
* A list of what media belongs to this continuity (which can include some stuff that's vaguely contradictory, but should exclude stuff that's way out there, like Earthforce relative to G1 comics). This can be sorted by publication order, or internal chronology, but if there's a major difference between the two, it should be spelled out.
* An overall description of the main events in that continuity, focusing on the events actually chronicled (not the distant past). In particular, for most continuities, changes in the leadership of either side, the changing status (living/dead, present/absent, duplicated by Straxus/encoded on a floppy, etc.)of the big two leaders (usually Optimus Prime and Megatron), any events involving Unicron or Primus, and introductions of major teams or groups of characters (Headmasters, Fuzors) should be in the summary.
* If necessary, a timeline, which may end up integrated with one of the above parts.
* Pointers to important and closely-related continuities (again, such as Earthforce), discussion of divergences, etc. JW 15:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
All that sounds pretty good, though I wouldn't get too hung up on following individual characters too much, even the leaders. In Marvel G1, at least, they changed over on a pretty regular basis.
On a related note... this and a lot of other overview-type pages are really lost in the shuffle. They should be top-level pages, with everything branching off of them and linking back to them, but instead they're buried and nothing links to them. You start off reading, say, the article on Spotlight: Soundwave. Where do you go from there to find out more? The IDW issues category? That's the only link out of that page. If you're a newcomer, or even someone with an imperfect memory, how do you know what comes next? Either the individual issue pages need to link to the timeline and continuity pages, or the category page does, or... something.
Taking care of it on the category page might be simplest, like what's on the Category:Marvel US issues page. -- Repowers 19:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the site is sadly lacking in both "uplinks" and "sidelinks" for the media; links from a TV episode to the TV series, links from an issue of a comic to an overview of the comic, links from one comic to the next comic in that series, etc. JW 19:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm still poking around and figuring out what's been done and what's needed; it might take a while to figure out how to start cleaning things up. It looks like we've got some random timelines started (still need ones for the Beast era and a few others), as well as continuity pages for some but not all of the major storylines, so I suppose each major continuity should have both kinds of pages. I wonder if there's a way to use a category or subcategory to get individual episode/issue pages to quickly link back to the main overview pages?... -- Repowers 19:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
JW, we do have that comics nav template, though I like the comic infobox on wikipedia more. --MistaTee 20:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah... http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Comicnav ...so we do. Very useful. Now we just gotta propagate it over a few hundred comic issue... :S -- Repowers 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Also, the nav setup only can link up one level. So Infiltration #2 can link up to the main Infiltration page, but not to the IDW continuity page above that. Would putting a variant of this template on the main page for each miniseries, linking up to the continuity page, work instead? Then you're never more than two clicks away from an individual issue to the continuity overview. -- Repowers 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
That, or somehow add it to the main comicnav template, perhaps in small letters above the series name. I don't wanna step on anyone's toes though. --MistaTee 20:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
That'd make the most sense, to add a "Continuity" level to the template, or alternately a lower-end "Mini-series" option. But hell if I can make sense out of how these things work... that might be a rainy day project, figuring that out.  :\ -- Repowers 20:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Continuity error?

I've noticed a few errors in episode summaries that are listed as continuity errors, but really aren't. An example from from Divide and Conquer:

Optimus Prime somehow deflects a heat-seeking missile by hitting its warhead with his arm.

I think this would be better described as a technical error. It is an example of a technical fact being misrepresented, not an internal continuity discrepancy. However, the sections titled "Technical and/or animation glitches" seem to only contain technical glitches specifically related to cartoon production. Is this how it should be, or am I just looking at the wrong stories to judge by?

If the latter, great, I'll just move the note. If the former... well, I think that's incorrect, but of course I'll go with it if that's consensus.

Is that consensus? --Sntint 16:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I noticed a couple of things like this on the "Transport to Oblivion" article, and moved them from the "Continuity errors" section to the "Miscellaneous trivia" section, which seemed more appropriate. "Technical and/or animation glitches" should be reserved for actual production errors, and not used for things that are "errors" in the way of not actually making real-world sense. --KilMichaelMcC 16:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
It'd be far more fun if we had a snarkily-titled section specifically for such things. ie How Can That Be? or WTF? Or at least Improbable Events. -- Repowers 02:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, what are the categories of "error"? A) Animation/Production Error: That's clearly huffer, but he's pink. / Starscream is talking in Arcee's voice. / Swoop's arm is seventeen feet away from Swoop's shoulder. B) Continuity Error: Airraid is present in this shot, but he's supposed to be on Earth. And dead. / Soundwave was present at this battle, though Megatron told him to stay behind and guard his Butterfingers. / Five Faces of Darkness: Passim. C) Plot Errors: Evil plans that make no sense. / Retreating for no reason. D) Science Errors: Deflecting missiles by hitting them on the warhead. / Yeah, the Transformers have never heard of water, right. / Neutron bombs are actually ill-suited for use against robots. JW 03:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I can totally get behind an ERRORS. OF. SCIENCE! subsection. -- Repowers 03:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Comic Issues Naming Convention

Okay, so MistaTee and I have gone back and forth on this, so I'm putting it out in the open. He's lobbying for the format to be "Comic Name (issue number)" with the issue number only being there if it's a multi-part story. Personally, I don't care what the spotted heck we use as long as we use the same format for all the comic issues. Thus to get this noticed and foster discussion, here it is. Ideally once we decide something, it'd be great if we could get Walky or Suki to bot-edit everything so we're over and done with that.--Rosicrucian 00:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

My reasoning is this: The title of the issue is not "Escalation, part 1", it's merely the first part of the title "Escalation". Also I don't care is we use "Escalation (part 1)", "Escalation (issue 1)" or "Escalation (#1)" as long as we're consistent. Please see my talk page for the conversation with Rosicrucian. --MistaTee 00:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm a little reluctant to make a universal rule on this sort of thing. Contrary to MistaTee's statement, sometimes the title of a story really is "Blah blah, Part 1". However, in cases where there is no known title (like most of the IDW issues), I think "Series Name issue #" would be best, much like what we already have for the Dreamwave Armada series (except that, of course, normally the publisher's name wouldn't be in the title, it's only there for Armada to differentiate from the Panini series). It doesn't feel right to me to have a comma or a set of parentheses. That's the model I would prefer for the IDW minis. In cases of a multi-part story which has a known title and takes place in a series of a different title, but the individual parts do not have titles, we can't use the word "issue". So... then I guess either "Story Name, part #" or "Story Name (part #)" is cool with me. I guess I have a slight preference for the comma approach, since it mirrors the way multi-part stories are titled when they are actually given titles. I agree with MistaTee that decapitalizing "part" in those cases is more correct, although it's not an issue that engenders any passion within me. --Steve-o 18:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
That actually makes a fair amount of sense to me. If we consider that we're treating these as multi-part stories similar to the way they are in the animated series episode summaries, it does follow that it would be "Infiltration, part 1" and so forth in absence of specific issue titles. It works for the miniseries issues, at the least.--Rosicrucian 15:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I've sorta grown a fondness toward "issue", since each individual comic IS an issue of a larger title or miniseries. I also favor the parentheses since the word "issue" is not part of the title. When the TPB is released for Escalation, for example, it is not separated by "issue" or "part", etc, it's a free flowing story. Therefore it's simply "Escalation (issue 1)". Now if the issue itself actually uses the word "part" or whatever (as in the UK strips for example) then I have no problem using it. --MistaTee 16:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think a an article title like "Escalation issue 3" causes any confusion -- the word issue and numeral 3 are clearly not part of the comic's title. It's just saying that the article is about the third issue of Escalation: "{Name of a comic series} issue {issue number}". Parentheticals in article titles, to me, are meant to differentiate between multiple entities that have the same name. The various issues of Escalation do not have the same name -- they have no names at all. "Escalation issue 3" then is a purely descriptive article title which doesn't imply anything about the title of that issue. "Escalation, part 3" avoids my parentheses concern and would be acceptable to me (it is of the form "{Name of a multipart story}, part {part number}"), but I'd rather we explicitly refer to issues as issues when possible. In self-analysis I can't think of a reason for that preference, so it may be arbitrary. --Steve-o 21:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I greatly prefer "Comic name, issue #". Or "Comic name, part #". I really don't like the parentheses - we generally have used them solely for disambiguation, and I think we should maintain that. - RolonBolon 05:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
"Issue" has the great advantage of being totally unambiguous. Everyone knows exactly what an "issue" is, as opposed to a "part", a "book", or whatever else. -- Repowers 05:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

As some food for thought, I took a look at the inside covers to see how IDW actually parses things.

  • Infiltration uses "The Transformers # _", with "Infiltration" printed a line beneath it.
  • Stormbringer uses "The Transformers: Stormbringer # _".
  • Escalation uses the "The Transformers" logo with "Escalation" underneath basically as an extension of the logo. Further down on the page is printed "Issue Number ___", with the number actually written out.
  • Like Stormbringer, Devastation uses "The Transformers: Devastation # _".

Stormbringer and Devastation have an obvious solution here. Simply drop the "The Transformers:" and just use the "Series Title # _" format. No commas, parentheticals, or extra words needed. It might be simpler to just apply this format to Infiltration and Escalation as well.

However, if we'd rather stick closer to the titles printed in the actual comics, Escalation should probably be "Escalation, Issue Number One" and so forth. I'm not quite sure on Infiltration though, as the way it's formatted in those books doesn't allow for a simple discard of the "The Transformers" part. Keeping that in could mean either "The Transformers # _, Infiltration" or maybe "The Transformers # _ (Infiltration)" --KilMichaelMcC 06:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

More food for thought... I also just checked at the inside covers and discovered a rather consistent pattern. If you look at the small writing at the bottom, all the IDW "-ation" series seem to have it formatted "The Transformers: Infiltration #1", "The Transformers: Escalation #1", "The Transformers: Devastation #1", "The Transformers: Megatron Origin #1", etc. --MistaTee 08:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I'll like to point out that the "#" can't be used in article titles. (Since it's used in links to point to sections.) Interrobang 09:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Dammit, back to square 1, lol. Well on the front cover they all seem to use "issue #X" right under the IDW logo. Without the # symbol, that would be "issue X". If we can decide on the word "issue" at least, we can debate whether to format it as "issue X", "Issue X", "(issue X)" or "(Issue X)" --MistaTee 14:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Echoing the "dammit." Personally, I really dislike the current use of (issue X), with its uncapitalized word inside parenthesis. It just looks... wrong... to me. I think "Title, issue X" would be much better, but that's just me. --KilMichaelMcC 19:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Something worth noting: if we use parentheses, we can use pipe magic on the title in question.--Rosicrucian 20:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Example? --MistaTee 20:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
If you link to an article with a parenthetical reference in its title, you can use an empty pipe to auto-fill the link. For example [[Revelation (IDW)|]] gets parsed as Revelation.--Rosicrucian 20:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Ah, that is a nice feature. --MistaTee 20:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't think pipe magic will be helpful when linking to individual issues, though. If I were going to link to Infiltration #4 I would probably want the link to state which issue it went to instead of making it look like it goes to the series' "hub" page. --Steve-o 22:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Glancing over the more recent posts -- and thanks for chiming in, folks -- it appears that a non-parentheses style is more popular. Further, the IDW books themselves seem to vary the way they write out their titles in minor ways, although the indicia consistently use "{Series Name} #{Issue Number}". This makes me think that my previous suggestion to follow the style "Infiltration issue 4" or "Infiltration, issue 4" is going to be best. I prefer the style without a comma, but it's not a big deal to me either way. Opinions on that? --Steve-o 22:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

If the parentheses are definitely out, I suppose the non-comma version --MistaTee 03:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Current troll problem

Is there a way to keep the IP addresses our resident troll has been using from creating accounts? --FortMax 00:58, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Presumably that's the "account creation disabled" part of the block log. So I think he's hopping IPs before creating winners like Optimus the F22--RosicrucianTalk 01:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The staff at Wikia would probably be able to help. They are aware of Assautlhead, and consider him a cross wiki vandal. -- SFH 01:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I looked at Wikia's block log, and the logs shows when it is used. So apperently our admins haven't been making use of it. --FortMax 01:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Or at the least that there's a difference between local account creation and global account creation. I'll admit I'm a little fuzzy on the distinction regarding how Wikia works versus a more standard wiki.--RosicrucianTalk 01:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

YOU WILL SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT ASSAULTHEAD OR I WILL BEAT YOU UP FAST THAT YOUR FUCKING HEADS WILL SPIN! THAT NAME MAKES ME SICK!(64.58.144.10 09:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC))

Guess who recently got handed a permanent block at Wikipedia and is back to haunt us?--RosicrucianTalk 14:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Assuming this is the same guy that's been trolling here for awhile, if I recall correctly, Walky was the one who asked the rest of us if he should ban the guy immediately, because he was too entertaining. True, while the guy could have returned as easily as he later did regardless of how quickly he was banned and Walky wouldn't have known the guy would continually return if banned, tolerance of trolling stupidity just encourages more stupidity, I've observed. --FFN 23:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Indonesian version

I noticed than an Indonesian version of this wiki was just launched- could we link to that from the same pull -down menu on the front page that currently just links to the Hungarian version? --TVsGrady 17:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Administrators

Any chance we can get at least one more administrator for late hours? If the current idiot rage is any indicator, we need it. Interrobang 09:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the admins aren't normally online during these hours, because I assume they are located in either the same countries or timezones that aren't too far from each other, which is a problem as this troll guy knows that's the time to attack with less risk of administrative intervention. --FFN 09:52, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Spelling of site name

I feel like this has been discussed repeatedly, but we still haven't actually done anything about it, and it recently came up again on Transformers Wiki talk:User page. We've taken to generally writing the name of our wiki and the computer it is named after as "Teletraan I", although the site database still uses "Teletraan-1" instead, meaning that text appears anywhere the wiki SITENAME variable is called. "Teletraan I" is the way the name appears in the original G1 episode scripts and the G1 cartoon bible. Some later but still official spellings omit one of the As, or use an arabic number instead of a roman numeral, or include a hyphen, or any combination of these things. I feel as if we should stick with the original spelling, even though that spelling was only "discovered" in the last 5 years or so and, for all I know, might not even be the most common spelling. Regardless of the spelling that we pick, I am really tired of the inconsistency between our graphic logo and the SITENAME variable, and think we should take one and go with it. I would appreciate it if other users would express their preferences. --Steve-o 04:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Teletraan I. I'd prefer not to go with fan-originated spellings. Interrobang 05:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I say "Fuck it, we rename the whole thing Vector Sigma, which is a way better name for a repository of TF data anydamnway." -hx 11:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
In THAT case, Underbase. But no, we're probably a little too established as Teletraan I (however you like it spelled) these days. --Sntint 12:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Elements of ideal comic issue

We really should standardize pages for common things like comic issues, fer instance. We should find an accepted page that is perfect in format and either use that as the standard or just build an "example page" based on that. Using Infiltration (issue 0), I propose the following:

  • the top of the page should have the 2 most-common covers, rendered to 250px wide, and usually with a humorous comment. Other notable covers can be listed in the Covers section below.
  • The Comic Nav box should have the "pretty title" be the exact title as published, and in italics (but linked to the appropriate page)
  • 2 lines below the nav box (for spacing), should be a credits listing, usually the Writer/script, Artist/Penciler and inker, Colorist, Letterer and Editor in generally that order. The titles should be bolded.
  • Next should be a bullet point for Major characters (in order of appearance): (title in italics)
  • Next, bullet point for Originally published:, also title in italics. If published date is unknown, cover date.
  • If available, a 3rd bullet for Continuity:
  • after this, use a spacer symbol: {{-}}

There should be 4 sections using a level-2 header: Synopsis, Quotes, Errors and Items of note. If information is unknown for any of these, please include a bullet point for

  • None yet identified

Synopsis:

  • General overview of the important elements of the issue's plot

Quotes:

  • in quotation marks and italics. The second speaker (if there is one) should be indented. Below, using an m-dash, the speaker should be listed in Bold.

Errors

  • self-explanatory

Items of note

  • Connections to other issues/continuities/properties/whatever
  • special items
  • notes about recurring sections such as a letters section, etc.
  • Also under Items of note, in level-3 headers, should be a Covers section and a Advertisements section
  • Covers should list the number of covers, a very brief description of each and the artist(s)
  • Advertisements should at least list Transformers-related ads, although a complete list would be nice.

Whew! OK, let the debates begin! --MistaTee 17:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

How about instead of a paragraph for characters, we use that multicolored appearances box like we do for episodes? I like that. It's easier to read. Granted, some issues it'll be huge, but that's true for the cartoon as well. (If worse comes to worse, individuals on subgroups can be condensed down to just the group name.) --M Sipher 17:59, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Interesting idea. Might have to rearrange of few things. --MistaTee 20:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Yeh, I think maybe we can use a format similar to that we use for the cartoon episode. --TX55 03:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I too support the multicoloured box. Consistency is victory. - RolonBolon 03:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I did a mock-up using that style and some re-arrangement. Have a look. --MistaTee 04:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Let's get some more feedback so we can get a standard nailed down. --MistaTee 12:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I really do think that for quotations that contain more than two text-boxes worth of dialog, a script format is just simply easier to keep track of, (and this better) also slightly more compact. Oh, and I think my page-by-page listing of character cameos in Beast Wars #1 was cool and should have been kept - even though it's not standard, but that issue did have a ton of characters. Oh, and I really don't like having headers for empty categories, so they should be left out. Since they just make the wiki look incomplete when maybe there just aren't any errors or references or whatever in the issue.--Zodberg 16:56, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
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