Talk:Prowl 2
What the fuck, Derik? —Interrobang 21:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- ...do you not think Prowl 2 needs an article? -Derik 21:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- I don't even understand what that was about. -- SFH 21:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Read, learn. -Derik 21:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Skimming the booklet, it looks like "Prowl 2" ended up as just a new body for Prowl, and is not meaningfully a separate character. It should probably be handled in Prowl's article. JW 22:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Read, learn. -Derik 21:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Amazingly actually reading the booklet yields a different result than skimming it. -Derik 22:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Given my apparent lack of reading skills, I would appreciate it if you would give us a summary of your reasons for creating this page. JW 22:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Okay! Summary follows:
- He's a separate character from Prowl.
- Summary ends. -Derik 22:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I took the time to read it more thoroughly. The Prowl described there is A) a copy of Prowl's consciousness, previously stored on a computer, plus B) a human (Chip Chase) in a symbiotic relationship with him, right?
- Ergo, it's a lot like Powermaster Optimus Prime as he appeared in the G1 comics, who we don't consider to be a separate character. Heck, given that we still consider the Prime from Marvel Comics issue 80 to be the same character (a Last Autobot-empowered reincarnation of Prime, based on Hi-Q, based on Powermaster Optimus Prime, who in turn was made from a floppy disc copy of the original Prime), I don't think Prowl 2 warrants a new page. It's the same guy as Prowl. JW 22:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- That would be a completely adequate explanation if we didn't have this guy and the original Prowl running around simultaneously, as different individuals, in two separate places in continuity.
- And also if, you know, we hadn't actually gotten a toy called 'Prowl 2.' -Derik 22:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Well, heck, dude, if you'd said that in the first place, instead of being all coy . . . JW 22:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Given my apparent lack of reading skills, I would appreciate it if you would give us a summary of your reasons for creating this page. JW 22:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Amazingly actually reading the booklet yields a different result than skimming it. -Derik 22:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Beast Wars Sourcebook heavily implies that Transmetal 2 Prowl is Binaltech Prowl in a new body, while Prowl from Magnaboss is the original Ark crewman in a new body. Yes, Ben Yee has made this a royal clusterfuck, but it's a canonical clusterfuck now.--RosicrucianTalk 22:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- WhY mY HEad hURt? -- SFH 22:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I know I'm only inviting a headache by asking, but... why is RID Prowl 2 in this? --M Sipher 23:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Was Binaltech Prowl actually called "Prowl 2"? --KilMichaelMcC 23:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- The Blue one? I believe so. --FFN 23:53, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- What I mean to ask was, "was the toy was actually sold under the name Prowl 2"? The link to the Binaltech booklet translation Derik provides above says mentions that in the storyline the Binaltech Prowl body was originally developed to be a GT "parallel form" labelled "Prowl 2," but that plan was scrapped and that body became BT Prowl/Chip's main body. But was the character actually referred to as "Prowl 2" anywhere? Derik mentions above that we've "gotten a toy called Prowl 2"... but I think he may just be referring to the RiD toy, which he seems to think is the same character for some reason. --KilMichaelMcC 00:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I think Prowl 2 is the same character because he is the same character. From the BWTF.com translation;
- At first, the Honda-designed BT-15 model was developed for this project to become the parallel form "Prowl 2," but because Prowl's original body was destroyed before the GT network was activated, it was decided that BT-15 would function as his primary unit.
Remember, in japan Rid/CR takes place during G1. It's cracked- but RiD Prowl 2 is considered a G1 character in Japan. They're the same guy. -Derik 02:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Here's what's confusing me: It says that the BT Prowl body was originally designed to be a GT-unit called "Prowl 2," but that that plan was scrapped and it became Prowl/Chip's body instead. Where does it say that the Prowl/Chip character was actually called "Prowl 2"? --KilMichaelMcC 02:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Do you have any evidence that RiD Prowl 2 is the same guy as Prowl II? —Interrobang 02:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- RiD Prowl is a G1 character in Japan. Hirofumi Ichikawa wallowed int he RiD/G1 connection for Binaltech. (The GT system was a reference to RiD's Mirage GT.) So no, I have no evidence that G1 Prowl 2 is the same character as the other G1 Prowl 2, other than Ichikawa going out of his way to note he was going to be called Prowl 2 soas to emphasize that connection in case you were thick enough to miss it.
- (Am I crabby? Yes. But I've spent this entire page arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about, and when presented with links to information them skim them, miss the relevant parts and then tell me I'm wrong.) -Derik 03:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Derik - can you address my question? The paragraph you quote says that the Binaltech Prowl body was originally designed to a "parallel form" called "Prowl 2", but after Prowl's original body was destroyed "it was decided that BT-15 would function as his primary unit." So if this body is now the "primary unit" for Prowl (with added Chip) is the character called Prowl 2 or was that designation discarded along with the original "parallel form" plan? --KilMichaelMcC 03:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Not sure! Perhaps it represents a branch point witht he Binaltech timeloop. But Project Bodyshop survives the timeloop, so...
- Look, he's a duplicate Prowl in G1. TM2 Prowl is a duplicate prowl in G1. Prowl 2 is a duplicate prowl in Rid... and Rid is G1 in Japan. Binaltech Prowl is supposed to be RiD Prowl. The booklet included the reference for that very reason.
- So no Ethan, I can't produce a more explicit statement that BT Prowl is RiD Prowl2 than the already existing Hirofumi Ichikawa doing handstands in front of his lawn which he has lit on fire to spell out 'This is Prowl 2' for passing aircraft to read. I'm sorry- that's the best you're going to get. -Derik 04:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Derik, there is not the slightest reason to believe that Prowl 2 is a duplicate Prowl in RID. That's the part you refuse to explain, hence that's the part people have trouble with.
- I'm pretty sure the Super Mode deluxes were originally solicited as "Prowl 2", "Sideburn 2", and so forth, and Prowl 2 seems to be based on Super Prowl, so presumably he made it to production before the change was made. That's still speculation, but it's much less baseless speculation than what you're presenting as fact. And I'm not presenting mine as fact. Chip 04:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Quote Problem
I think there's a problem with the quote we're using ("BT-15 acts with all of Prowl's usual personality and will", etc.) If I'm reading the article correctly, that quote is from the text that Mr. Ichikawa originally sent in, but is not in the actual published booklet. Ergo, it represents authorial intent, but isn't canon. But, I might be wrong — the article at BWTF has the translation and the original stuff all mixed together, and is quite confusing. How does it look to other people? JW 04:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- I think Walky just deleted the article without moving it over its destination, so it's moot.
- I also think Walky forgets that 'Prowl 2' had a toy, for which this is a valid and official name, and if he'd prefer we work fro that article, 'Prowl 2' should be a redirect, not deleted. -Derik 04:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Prowl 2 should redirect to Prowl (RID). --ItsWalky 04:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
You know what I hate? That the Deluxe redecoes didn't make it out with the 2s after their names like they were in the computers, so we could all know that "2" indicates that they're the redeco versions and our infuriatingly literal-minded fandom could stop doing things like complicating this issue into the fucking stratosphere. That's what I hate. -LV 04:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
