Talk:Dynasty of Primes

... what on earth? Half the stuff in the "Revenge of the Fallen" section doesn't agree with the film version of the events, which are more-or-less chronicled at Tomb of the Primes. There couldn't have been a lone Prime who hid the Matrix in the Tomb of the Primes when we were shown a group of Primes melding their bodies into slag to MAKE the Tomb of the Primes to hide in the Matrix in the FIRST place. --Monzo 03:26, 27 June 2009 (EDT)

The info I got was from the novelization. If I was wrong, please correct. -- SFH 13:28, 27 June 2009 (EDT)

sol = sun?

Do they meen Sun with sol? because if they do meen the sun, the sun does not circle the earth.--Sunjumper 15:14, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

Merge proposal

So where would the combined page go? And how do we reconcile the differences between the movie and the adaptations? -- SFH 14:22, 25 July 2009 (EDT)

I think it should move to "Prime (ROTF)" so we can describe what a Prime is without starting off with a bias toward one medium or another. And we wouldn't reconcile anything, just describe what a Prime is in the movie and adaptations and leave it all unreconciled like the actual fiction is unreconciled. - Starfield 14:41, 25 July 2009 (EDT)

I still disagree with the need for a parenthetical. The term "Dynasty of Primes" encompasses every last Prime in the movie continuity. If we're going to merge, go with the official term that is the most inclusive.--Rosicrucian^Talk 16:25, 25 July 2009 (EDT)

Name for one of them

When Sam starts babbling Cybertronian knowledge in Astronomy class, one of the things that can be heard is "Sentinel Prime expedition." So it's possible one of them was named Sentinel Prime. ZeldaTheSwordsman 21:20, 28 July 2009 (EDT)

I'm not sure if it was Sentinel. Some of them are probably named things like Prima , Liege Maximo; after the Thirteen basically, except there was just seven instead. CH 12:58, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

The adaptations confirm it was Sentinel.--Rosicrucian^Talk 13:49, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

Any one in particular, just so we can source it and head-off confusion? -Derik 14:14, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

Both the novelization and issue two of the comic. Also, it just mentions "Sentinel Prime". For all we know, he isn't one of the original founders, and may just be a descendant like Optimus. -- SFH 14:16, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

Actually, he says it in the film as well. During the ramble the words Sentinel Prime are very clear, saying he proved something about the other dimensions, something scientific like that. We don't know if he's one of the original 7 or a descendant, but his existence is confirmed User:Eire 19.56 Oct 12 09 (UTC)

He says "the Sentinel Prime Expidition." It could be the name of the expedition, like "The Ark Expidition." And regardless we have no proof that this name refers to one of the 12/7 even if it does refer to an individual. -Derik 15:40, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

Mark of the Primes...

That funky little symbol at the beginning of the article--I think it's on the left side of movie!Optimus' forehead area, but sometimes it seems to be there and sometimes it isn't! Is this some kind of animation/rendering error? CH 03:45, 12 October 2009 (EDT) (I finally figured out the tildes! Doy!)

Difference with the adaptations

I only saw the movie once, after reading the adaptations (I was trying to enjoy the film and not looking for differences) but I don't think the stories are all that different. There is the number of Primes and how many are alive when they make the tomb. Anything else? - Starfield 00:01, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

Sometimes described as 12 prime initially, sometimes described as 13. If you start to get into the kids adaptions... the phrasing REALLY reads like the survivors except one sealed themselves in a tomb, and the last one returned to Cybertron and either begat or is Optimus Prime with his memory wiped. Or there was onyl one survivor who forged the tomb out of the parts of his fallen brothers...

You could dismiss the phrasing as bad, and not really indicating something different... but the story demonstrably is different in different c0ontinuities (number of Primes) so I'm reluctant to do so... I think the books do just say what they say. -Derik 00:12, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

I didn't know that in the kids' adaptation one of the original Primes may have survived. That would have actually made a little more sense. - Starfield 00:27, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

• The Last Prime
  • AllSpark created 13 Primes
  • Primes created the Matrix of Leadership (from the Allspark, other acaptions are clearer.)
  • "They hd one rule: No sun would be destroyed if it gave life to the worlds around it. Earth was one -planet the Transformers explored for Energy. But early humans were starting to walk the Earth, and the one rule was invoked. One of the Primes, known as The Fallen, did not follow this rule. Because he wanted the Matrix for hismelf, The Falled waged war on his 12 brothers." (Other books make a mess of this and disagree... but this simmary make the opening scene 17k years ago make the most SENSE, IMO. They surveyed Earth, thought it had no sentient life, and were well into the building process when that hunting party of humans arived and encountered The Fallen. This his anger at them-- and his decision to scare them off so he could cover it up and continue working would be his act of betrayal-- a moral failing. This doesn't fit with other media, which've imposed other somewhat jumbled contexts or meanings on the scene... but it feels the most 'right,' and I bet if you asked Orci he'd say that that's what it was supposed to be.)
  • 12 Primes sealed themselves in a tomb.
  • The Fallen waits "hovering in space."
  • Optimus is the last Prime. (Don't ask me to explain how that works is the Allspark only created 13, and 12 are in a tomb and the other is The Fallen.)
  • The face of the Fallen is projected from a triangle in the floor of the crashed ship.
  • Jetfire changed sides in the war between the Decepticons and the Autobots long ago.
  • Jetfire says "Only a Prime can defeat him. Only one survives, forever unaware of his destiny." (So Jetfire knows of Uptimus specifically? And he knows he's ignorant of his own origins which are...? I know, it makes no sense.)
  • The Primes in the Infinite White are called 'skeletons.' (I remember the ROTF novel also called them 'endoskeletons'... do it doesnt' seem to just be a 'look' the original 13 had... they actually are Transformer skeletons, with none of the armor a Transformer normally has.)
  • First ghost/skeleton: "We are the Dynasty of the Primes." (Wait... they called themselves that? As a formal term for their group?)
  • Optimus is "our descendant." Our is collective, he's the sescendant of the Primes as a whole. (How literal to take that...?)
  • Like in the ROTF novelization, only 6 primes actually speak.
  • Jetfire tells Optimus that as the last of the Primes he possesses powers beyond his own imagining. (No I don't know what that means... but the movie seems to have a vague notion that Primes have some intrinsically special quality to them that it wanted to articulate, but failed in the scramble to corall the script disaster. It might be related to Prime's ability to take Jetfire's parts or absorb his energy, or might not. The movie dials this back signifigantly, jetfire says his parts will give Prime great power-- ditchign any idea of this somehow being intrinsic to his status as a Prime.)
  • Optimus says the Fallen killed his 'brothers', who are his ancestry. (The movie ditches this, and has The Fallen scream at Optimus "Die like your brothers!")
  • Prime tells Megatron that The Fallen's promise to make him into a Prime was a lie because Prime's a born, not made. (Totally undercutting the moral of Sam's arc in the movie, where he is told that a hero is something you choose to become, not something you already are... hilariously he's told this by the Ghost Primes as a piece of great universal wisdom. Don't look too deeply into this... I think the reason the line got cut from the movie was because the producers were aware of the moral dissonance and didn't want to highlight it.)
  • The Fallen opens a wormhole to escape, but is pulled back by Optimus using Animated-style grapple-lines. Megatron escapes through the wormhole before it closes instead. (This shows up in a dople adaptions-- I think Bay toywed with a couple different ideas of the final fight. Megatorn escapign this way was PROBABLY ditched because when it came tiem to do the effects they had the Fallen teleporting in flashes, not stepping through flaming portals as originally envisioned.)
  • Prime stabs The Fallen through the skull with a piece of the machine.