Talk:Black redeco

I don't think G1 Skywarp really fits the description. He was before the trend of "black repainting" and he came out about at the same as the others, so I think Skywarp is just a redeco who happens to be black. Soundblaster is probably the first true example as an existing character who was redecoed as black. Also, I don't really see the point of this page, but that's OK. - Starfield 11:39, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

The page is about a very noteworthy trend in TF toys -- it definitely belongs. I agree about Skywarp. A true "black repaint" is generally an "evil clone" or some other such nonsense, made solely because OMG BLAKK AWZUM. Skywarp's a legitimate independent character. -- Repowers 11:53, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

I disagree. How can a "repaint" (using the term loosely) that is black, not be a "black repaint"? Black repaints are extremely easy ways of making more uses of a mold. That many of them have been "evil clones" and such is a secondary phenomenon. Just my opinion. Khajidha 01:36, 3 January 2010 (EST)

Skywarp is absolutely a black repaint. Saying he isn't because black repaints are usually evil clones or stealth mode variants is like saying Cybertron Longrack isn't really a construction vehicle redeco because construction vehicle redecoes are usually Constructicon homages: it's utterly ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

To take a slightly less "wtf are you stupid" approach, neither Scourge nor Soundblaster is a particularly strong match for our new arbitrarily restrictive definition either. Soundblaster would appear to have been motivated by "let's redeco Soundwave" and then black being selected as a color that looked nice, rather than the omgblackkewl mentality--otherwise, Twincast would be black as well (or perhaps white). Scourge is an evil clone in fiction, but not of the character whose toy he was redecoed from, which wasn't even from the same line--not at all in the same spirit as, say, Reverse Evolution Sixturbo. Universe Nemesis Prime has a similar problem; while he does look like the guy he's cloned from, that guy is fiction-only. If we're disqualifying Skywarp, then these three really shouldn't count either, which means we've kicked all the most prominent black repaints out of the black repaint club for not being black repainty enough.

Oh, and Skywarp was a new color scheme for Transformers, while Starscream and Thundercracker were in Diaclone, so he is a black version of a preexisting toy. --Andrusi

How do you even know Skywarp is even a repaint? Maybe he is the "paint" and Starscream and Thundercracker are the "repaint"s. - Starfield 16:10, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Well... Skywarp is the only deco not from the Diaclone line. So he's the repaint. Geewunling 16:17, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Yeah but Diaclone is technically a different toy than Transformers. They just happen to use the same mold, so that shouldn't count. Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp all debuted at the same time. If, say, Sunstorm was black, I could see the case for him being a black repaint. Riddlerj 16:24, 12 February 2010 (EST)

For me, Black repaints are usually a crass attempt to squeese a few more bucks out of an old toy. Something like Stalker Scorpinok or Nightwatch Prime Riddlerj 16:27, 12 February 2010 (EST)

ANY repaint is "a crass attempt to squeese a few more bucks out of an old toy", so how is that more relevant to the examples you gave than to any other repaint? Khajidha 18:48, 12 February 2010 (EST)

Because all three characters debuted at the same time. They are all repaints of one mold. It's like saying Huey is a ripoff of Dewey and Louie. Now, if a year later they came out with Shmuey, well Shmuey just seems like a lack of better ideas because the three original nephews are old news. I think the idea is that simply reissueing a previous (emphasis on "previous") mold in black or "evil" as opposed to a new, nifty character seems particually uninspired. Just my opinion. Riddlerj 16:19, 15 February 2010 (EST)

My god, this is ridiculous. "OH, SKYWARP IS A BLACK REDECO OF AN EXISTING TOY PREVIOUSLY AVAILABLE IN TWO NOT-BLACK COLOR SCHEMES THAT AREN'T TECHNICALLY TRANSFORMERS DESPITE BEING ESSENTIALLY IDENTICAL TO THEM, THEREFORE HE DOESN'T COUNT." And how the hell is he not a blatant excuse to try to get more money from an existing tooling? Was there some more "legitimate" reason Hasbro needed a third jet? No. Skywarp is a black repaint. --Andrusi 11:12, 23 February 2010 (EST)

He lack the traditional gold or aqua accents though! :3 -Derik 11:55, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Saying Skywarp is a black repaint completely misses the point of why this page exists and not, say, red repaint or green repaint. Also, this isn't a comprehensive list of all of them, but some notable examples. Soundblaster yes, Scourge oh GOD yes, probably Shadow Panther would be a good one, and the whole Nemesis Prime thing is kind of infamous. The fact that there is so much disagreement about Skywarp indicates that he's not a good representative example even if he might technically fit the criteria.--Jimsorenson 12:20, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The page exists because black redecos are common enough that they're thought of as their own "thing." Whether that is a good reason for the page to exist is another matter, but as the guy who made the page in the first place, I think I would have a pretty good idea of why it happened. --Andrusi, a.k.a. Can't-Stay-Logged-In-Man 14:04, 23 February 2010 (EST)

So is Blackarachnia a black repaint?

From the beginning this page has stated 1) Transformers are often repainted in black decos, 2) these decos are often evil clones. The first point is about toy manufacturing practice, the second about the storyline justification. It seems that Jim and several others want this page to be solely/primarily about the storyline justification; while Andrusi, myself and others see it as being primarily about the toy manufacturing process. Khajidha 14:16, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Skywarp existed well before the statement "Transformers are often repainted in black decos" was true. At the time, Transformers were not often repainted black, at least, not more than any other color. At best Skywarp can retroactively be called a "black repaint", which is weird. I just think he is a redeco that happens to be black. It is kind of like Blast Off and Blaster. Are they examples of blastification? They predate blastification. They aren't part of blastification, they just happen to have "Blast" in their name. - Starfield 14:30, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Well put, Starfield. But I was attempting to synthesize the two viewpoints into something that all could live with. Certainly, Skywarp is a black transformer toy where the mold has also been used for non-black color schemes, I can see how he'd be worth a mention. I do think that the timing makes it pretty sketchy, but hey, with a bit of a qualifier I'm fine with leaving it in. --Jimsorenson 14:31, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Yes, I thought your note on Skywarp was good. - Starfield 14:37, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The reasoning "the article mentions that black repaints are common, and Skywarp came out before they were common, so clearly he is not a black repaint" makes me want to hurt someone. The top of Kup's article says he's old--does that mean that, when he was younger, he wasn't Kup?

As for the blastification argument, Blast Off and Blaster are excluded because in both cases the "blast" makes sense in a meaningful way, which is contrary to the definition of the word--note that the article does consider Aquablast, who predates the concept by over a decade, to be an example. --Andrusi 14:54, 23 February 2010 (EST)

• sigh* Jim and Starfield are right. Skywarp is not a black repaint in the way that this article defines black repaints. (Will anyone hurt me if I say this should technically be at Black Redeco?) --ItsWalky 15:00, 23 February 2010 (EST)

The article defines black repaints (a term which it justifies in the second sentence: "The term is usually inaccurate, as the toys are almost always redecos and not actually repaints, but the name has stuck.") as redecos which are black, and mentions in the middle of the article that a lot of the time they're evil counterparts or stealth modes. --Andrusi 15:03, 23 February 2010 (EST)