Talk:Vice Grip
Even the most lecherous of Predacons under Megatron's command has respect for him.
Now, is that supposed to read like that?
lecherous (From Wiktionary) Adjective
1. given to a lustful craving of sexually deviant activities.
--Betsumei 13:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- You've met Tarantulas, right? --ItsWalky 14:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
These Omega Point wntries say nothing about what the characters did in Omega Point. Also, they are not written in-universe.
Also, Packrat and Fractyl both survived Omega Point, so I'm nto clear on what you mean by 'a result of' the OP story. Are you implying the 'original' timeline of the show was rewritten by Omega Point's events, and was never put back?
Why is it so important that they be off-screen? The 3H 'version' of BW includes them, though there's some soto-voice comments from the wrtiters that the episode of the show occoured the same, with these 4 convieniently offscreen. But the IDW version of BW, which also says 'the show took place as you saw it' doesn't have them. So we have at least two diffewrent versions of BW whose 'visible' version of the universe is intended to match the screen. Are you under the illusiont hat one-or-the-other of them actually IS the same universe as the cartoon? That in the 1996 animated cartoon, we just missed Rattrap mentioning that Fractyl has gone out on patrol?
There seems to be serious problems built-in assumptions in these entries you're writing that need examining. -Derik 06:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- The "Omega Point" notes I've been adding don't mention "what the characters did" because, as the notes themselves say, they didn't do anything. These entries were written with Critical Mass and Visitations as separate from OP, so I kept them that way. Also, I wrote them with a fourth-wall-breaking tone because I found that that was the clearest way to explain the convoluted concepts. I was under the impression that the style of this Wiki is loose in that regard. Am I wrong in that? As for your other points....
- First: Why does the "contradiction" matter? Why can't the 3H version of BW just be different from the Mainframe version of BW? Well, it can. But I don't think that was the writers' intent, and besides, there are lots of juicy historical tidbits throughout the 3H continuity, and the farther that continuity is away from BW, the sadly less relevant those tidbits seem. So by finding a way to concretely explain away the extra characters, I provide the reader with a rationale to accept the 3H storyline as a genuine, in-continuity addition to BW-as-we-know-it. However, note that I couch my OP paragraph in lots of "if"s and "maybe"s. I'm not saying the extra characters HAVE to be explained away; I'm just saying that they CAN be. If you're comfortable believing that there's another BW-verse where Fractyl and Vice Grip and the rest frolick in the open for all three seasons, then go ahead and think that. It's just not the only option.
- Second: Doesn't IDW-BW, by being mutually exclusive with the 3H stories, make the contradiction issue moot? Doesn't it imply that there are at least two different Beast Wars timelines anyway? Not really. They could be divergent timelines that branch off from the same core. Besides, making the 3H BW different from the show adds relative "legitimacy" to IDW-BW because that storyline presents no such discrepancy. I'm trying to keep the playing field even between the two.
- Third: How does OP resolve this issue at all? Was something "rewritten by Omega Point's events, and was never put back?" I touched on this in the "Analysis" section of my Reaching the Omega Point write-up. But here's how I see all the evidence lining up: In 2005, when Unicron threw his essence back in time, he laid the groundwork for a future that was never meant to be. (Several characters, including the Chronarchitect, make reference to the impossible becoming real.) The Dark Essence was continually being pulled back to its proper fate in 2005, but it resisted. (That's explicitly why BW Megatron was a threat to it: his dragon-breath was breaking the Essence's hold on the past.) The only thing that could save the Essence was the device that Shokaract was looking for: the "dimensional key" that could "seal the dimensional wall" (apparently Apelinq's transfer interlink). So it seems that, all else being equal, the Dark Essence was going to be sucked back to 2005 eventually. Intervention was necessary, and the fact that it was Shokaract who intervened - a being who couldn't exist without that intervention happening first - I blame on Unicron and his wacky god-powers. Unicron, trying desperately to hold on to the past, used his devil-magic to manifest a timeline where he succeeded, but the timeline needed to secure its own existence. I posit that everything that happened in the 3H-verse up until Point Omega itself was in this unstable timeline. We know that most of it was, anyway: Antagony appeared in just the second story. How could Packrat, Fractyl, et al, be related? Well, in the Shokaract timeline, the Dark Essence never returns to 2005. So right there, things begin to change. I don't know what was SUPPOSED to happen to it then, but it didn't, so a snowball effect is likely. That snowball effect could've led to four extra Maxies and Preds on the Axalon and Darksyde. Who eventually have some adventures with Furmanite and Plot Devices on prehistoric Earth. But when Point Omega happened, and the Dark Essence went back to 2005 where it belonged, the snowball effect disappeared, and the Mainframe BW resulted. No extra Beasties, no Antagony, no apocalypse between Master Blaster and Other Victories.
- So! I admit that a lot of that is conjecture. Conjecture is an absolute necessity when trying to describe Omega Point. But I try to call it out with "perhaps"es and "maybe"s where appropriate. And in these character-articles specifically, I say that OP "may have had significant effects"..."if his presence was the result of the corrupt Shokaract timeline..." If you don't buy the 2005-snowball theory, or you're comfortable with the characters being around (either unseen in the Mainframe-verse or seen in a 3H-BW that didn't self-destruct), then more power to you. But I thought this possible explanation needed to be included in the article to keep the options open. - Jackpot 07:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
