Talk:Skystalker (G1)

Question: If the Thunder Arrow pilot is identical to Skystalker, has no specific name, and has never been used or seen in fiction, why are we assuming it's a different character than Skystalker? Wouldn't Occam's Razor suggest that they're the same guy? This seems like an article just for the sake of having an article. For that matter, why is the Thunder Arrow at a different page than the interstellar shuttle? Aren't they essentially the same thing? We don't have separate pages for, say, Scorponok and Megazarak, and they seem far more different than the Thunder Arrow and the interstellar shuttle. --Joefan 19:18, 13 November 2012 (EST)

I think this is a pretty compelling argument for a couple of merges.--Rosicrucian^Talk 19:55, 13 November 2012 (EST)

I assume the reason is that from Chōjin Masterforce onward, the Japanese characters are given their own character pages as a general rule. Holi is on a different page than Stakeout (G1) for example. I think it makes sense. The Japanese fiction splits pretty far and nobody seems to be the same character in Japan somewhere around the Headmasters era. - Starfield 20:46, 13 November 2012 (EST)

We do sometimes assume that. I get Masterforce, where they have different names, origins, often colors. But with Micromasters, we tend to assume they're the same guy unless the name or faction changes. Wheel Blaze, for instance, isn't split up.--Joefan 12:13, 14 November 2012 (EST)

The two are incompatible with opposing functions. One is a shuttle transport for little Micromasters, the other is a Decepticon-sized mobile base of operations. The Thunder Arrow is a full-sized, specific vessel, while the smaller shuttle is more of a generic craft. The toys are the same because Takara repurposed the Micromaster ship into a Decepticon headquarters. --Sabrblade 13:33, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Technically, the toy was not repurposed in Japan. It looks to me like the Japanese toy was never anything other than the Thunder Arrow. I oppose the merging of the vehicle pages for the reasons you give. Also, it would be very misleading towards the nature of the US toy if the article name was "Thunder Arrow." I don't have a strong opinion about merging the Micromasters. If he is, he should have a note after the intro paragraph similar to Wheel Blaze's. Something like,

In Japan, this toy was the unnamed, toy-only pilot of the Thunder Arrow.

- Starfield 21:35, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Assuming that's an accurate statement of events, I support the merge. -Derik 01:43, 15 November 2012 (EST)

One is big, one is small? But we don't have separate articles for Fortress Maximus (Marvel) and Fortress Maximus (Sunbow). One is the same size as Optimus, the other is a city. Thunder Arrow / unnamed shuttle are both powerful extremely powerful ships used to transport Decepticons from one place to another. We've in the past given articles names based on Japan when there is no US name. Brigadoon comes to mind. To say one is repurposed seems like an odd assumption. I'd just assume they gave it a cool name.--Joefan 02:19, 15 November 2012 (EST)

It's not simply that one's big and one's small. The Thunder Arrow is meant to be a very specific vessel, one that serves the purpose of being a base of operations. The Interstellar Shuttle is just a random craft used simply as a means of transport. And this case differs from Brigadoon as "Interstellar Shuttle" (as generic as that name sounds) is that shuttle's official U.S. name. But it doesn't fit with the Thunder Arrow because the Thunder Arrow is not a measly shuttle, but a full-fledged starship. --Sabrblade 15:31, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Maybe I'm being naive, but how do you know any of that? As for the name, it's not called that in the tech spec or in the instructions. See [1] and [2]. It doesn't call it that on the box either. As far as I can tell, it's labeled interstellar shuttle in one place only, the Dreamwave profiles books. Even then it's all lower case, which argues against that being a proper name but instead a description. The tech spec also states that it's both heavily armed and "fearsome" which implies to me that it's not just a "random craft used simply as a means of transport." It also "rockets across galaxies" which sounds to me like a full-fledged starship.--Joefan 21:14, 15 November 2012 (EST)

I concede on jumping the gun on the shuttle's "official" U.S. name. That was a mistake on my part. However, a shuttle is not a starship, no matter how fearsome it is. All that talk in the bio about shuttle being this awesomely powerful thing that can go across galaxies was likely originally meant to sell the toy since kids liked/like that kind of sci-fi stuff. Such exaggerations are not unheard of in TF media,. But still, the two are of an entirely different class of spacecraft. Shuttles are a lower class than starships. Like, one wouldn't consider the Enterprise a shuttle, right? --Sabrblade 21:50, 15 November 2012 (EST)

The Maximals flew the Ark's emergency shuttle all the way from Earth to Cybertron. I would promote caution in over-relying on the semantics of the word "shuttle". -LV 22:33, 15 November 2012 (EST)

What he said.

Seriously, though, I definitely wouldn't consider the Enterprise a shuttle, but it seems to me that you're being very selective by dismissing virtually everything that's every been published about the craft and focusing entirely on the word "shuttle." The tech specs and More Than Meets The Eye both talk about how fearsome and well armed it is. The Micromasters miniseries features it (barely) as transporting Skystalker to many different solar systems, at the very least. None of those are what I'd consider the actions of a "shuttle", which Bing defins as route taken or vehicle used: the route taken or the aircraft, bus, or train used to travel frequently between two places, often relatively near each other. Wouldn't it be more sensible to assume that "shuttle" is the misnomer here and it is, in fact, the fearsomely armed starship that bios and fiction alike depict it being?--Joefan 22:36, 15 November 2012 (EST)