Talk:Alice (ROTF)

Pretender?

Would it be accurate to consider that Alice might be a Pretender? Doesn't seem to transform, just covers herself in a shell.

She's not a Pretender by our definition. She's more like Optimus Primal - a robot that transforms into an organic primate. There's no shell involved at all. Mind, the powers that be may say she's a Pretender anyhow. Until then, she's just a Transformer who transforms into a human. --ItsWalky 01:39, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

How exactly did she transform? The "skin" just seemed to fold back, revealing the robot beneath, with no actual shape-changing.KrytenKoro 09:48, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

I think that, if anything official calls her a 'Pretender', including semi-official things like interviews with people who would know, we could call her one. Otherwise, though, it's just another Sari Sumdac situation. Her conversion from human to robot was different enough than any prior depiction of pretenders (splitting in half or phasing out, like in the Marvel comic, or disappearing in a burst of light or puff of smoke, like in Masterforce) that we'd be taking too big a leap. --Jimsorenson 10:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

I know it probably doesn't mean much, but in this interview Orci says "there is a Pretender". -Mazenoise 10:13, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Well, as far as I'm concerned, that'd be enough. I don't know if that will be the consensus around here. --Jimsorenson 10:23, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

The film's producers do seem to intend this to be their take on the pretender concept.

For what it's worth, it looked to me like she had little 'tiles' of flesh all over her body that folded back. -Derik 10:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

I agree that I think that was their intention. But that makes it a little difficult to define a Pretender in the movieverse. Pretenders typically have a shell and altmode. All Transformers pretend to be something else. What makes a Camaro different than a human? Is a Pretender simply a Transformer with a biological altmode, or a Transformer with an altmode mimicking any other life-from? - Starfield 10:40, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

If i might add, she is alto like a terminator, in that she's a robot covered in a soft organic "alive" shell to fool humans. The only thing different is that she can "retract" it(somehow, the tip of her tongue does not). would that be worth noting?--Sunjumper 11:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Also, not every Pretender has an alt mode - see the Dinoforce. --Jimsorenson 11:12, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

It's possible Alice has an altmode beyond her shell, she just didn't transform.

I agree that Alice's "integrated shell" is unique among Pretenders... but they called her a Pretender in interviews. (Which we seriously need a cite for.) I agree she's a different type of Pretender... but we've had pretenders with pop-open shells, phase-out shells, remote-control shells, disappearing size-reducing shells, animal shells, vehicle shells, combining and transforming shells... this isn't really far out of line for that.

It's complicated by the original Honda/Alive-in-Wonderland plot, but that genuinely seems to have been cut from the theatrical version-- all traces were excused. So we're left with the simple fact-- she can turn into a human-- something none of the other Transformers are able to mimic, and the producers called her a Pretender in interviews.

She's a Pretender. -Derik 11:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Someone who's got the exact wording needs to add a quote to this article of the "I'll pretend to be your girlfriend, you pretend to be my boyfriend" line. That's probably my favorite line from the entire movie, for being such a subtle nod. --KilMichaelMcC 16:05, 27 June 2009 (EDT)

I'd definitely vote for classing her as a Pretender, albeit a Movieverse variation on the concept. After all, the Japanese-verse Masterforce Petenders didn't really have literal "shells" per se, right? They just sort of magically changed from human to robot in a weird lightshow, didn't they?114.78.235.104 09:19, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

I like the way that anonymous poster thinks. Pretenders aren't necessarily the exact same thing in each continuity they appear in, so I would go ahead and say Alice is a Movie-style Pretender.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fallen13 (talk • contribs){{#if:10:44, June 28, 2009 EDT| 10:44, June 28, 2009 EDT|}}.

Going by this rather loose definition of pretender, I think the crab spy is a pretender. He is mimicking a biological life-form. - Starfield 12:12, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

Save for the fact that one has been stated to be a Pretender by the creators, and one has not.--Rosicrucian^Talk 12:21, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

I don't know what a movieverse pretender is then. - Starfield 12:29, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

At this point, the animatronic angle seems to be the most solid we have. The category is just a formality, like "Triple-Changer." --Rosicrucian^Talk 12:34, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

And, keep in mind, beast-formers are supposed to be a related technology to pretenders.. so it's not that strange if she has aspects of both. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.73.70.113 (talk • contribs){{#if:14:45, July 12, 2009 EDT| 14:45, July 12, 2009 EDT|}}.

Seriously? I never heard that about beast formers. That should be noted on the beast mode page (with citations). - Starfield 15:17, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

Size_changing#Pretenders

What is her purpose? and why?

To kill Sam and (maybe) get the cybertronian symbols in his mind like what Scalpel tried to do, I guess.

Trivia

Interesting tidbit of trivia is that in addition to some other effects in the movie, Michael Bay commissioned Digital Domain to work three months on a two second close up of Alice's face transforming. Incidentally, one of the key owners of Digital Domain is...Michael Bay. Way to funnel that budget. Riddlerj 20:28, 7 July 2009 (EDT) http://gizmodo.com/5305809/why-just-2-seconds-of-transformers-2-took-3-months-to-complete

I added it already.

Protected

I just have to know, Why is this page protected? none of the other Movie characters are, and there is no spoilers cos most fans have seen the movie, so why the heck is the page protected?--92.238.160.11 13:44, 24 July 2009 (EDT)

Alice from Orlando in the film?

Does Alice happen to say she is from Orlando in the film, or that she has a prince for a boyfriend? That would be an awesome tie-in to the animatronic origin story. - Starfield 11:25, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

Weird question...

Are we sure she is a female Transformer? By which I mean her altmode/shell is female, but has anything ever said that the robot itself is female? Khajidha 10:46, 9 November 2009 (EST)

Allspark Almanac apparently confirmed it. Geewunling 10:51, 9 November 2009 (EST)

Also, her robot mode has boobs and Medusa hair. --ItsWalky 10:51, 9 November 2009 (EST)

That could be altmode kibble. Just kidding! - Starfield 15:14, 18 February 2010 (EST)

Maybe weirder question?

Has any source tried to explain yet how mimicking an animatronic doll gives you the appearance of a flesh and blood human? If she was smart enough to fix the texture issue, surely she'd know to remove the nameplate...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 173.11.36.169 (talk • contribs){{#if:14:57, February 18, 2010 (EDT)| 14:57, February 18, 2010 (EDT)|}}.

No. But it must have been very high-end animatronics. Possibly from Japan. Or Sector Seven. They did sell N.B.E. 01 tech for money, didn't they? - Starfield 15:14, 18 February 2010 (EST)

Yeah, see, that's why I figured that particular scene being cut from the movie helped Alice make more sense. - Chris McFeely 16:32, 18 February 2010 (EST)

Foreign name?

If her name in Japanese is also "Alice," why bother listing it?--Rosicrucian^Talk 11:22, 30 June 2011 (EDT)

Because people are going to assume the absence of information is an absence, not an indication that her name is the same. And telling readers what the Japanese characters are more than warrant keeping it around for information and curiosity. —Interrobang 11:52, 30 June 2011 (EDT)

Sari

Aren't there quite a few Transformers that take human form as Pretenders?KrytenKoro 14:59, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

I think the idea of the note is that Sari and Alice have a human-mode as part of their transformation. Other Transformers use some kind of gimmick. Is that what you are talking about? Another Transformer with a human mode is the new lab assistant. Is there anyone else? - Starfield 17:30, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

Unconfirmed name

Is her name considered unconfirmed? Alice is just her human disguise name but her real robot name is unconfirmed, should it be considered unconfirmed?

She has a canonical name. It is not likely her original non-disguise name, but it is still her real name. --ItsWalky (talk) 20:55, 9 February 2015 (EST)

Ok

Same?

Is she really the same pretender who killed Alisa Morozov in the Convergence prequel comic? Pat (talk) 03:20, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Do we really KNOW that she was so inspired?

"Her robot mode is heavily inspired by The Terminator, as pointed out by many fans." If this means that official sources have stated that she was so inspired AND that fans have mentioned the similarities, it can stay after being rephrased and cited. If it is just saying that many fans have made comments about perceived similarities, then it doesn't belong. --Khajidha (talk) 08:31, 19 September 2019 (EDT)