Talk:Dropshot (G1)

Universe Merge?

Given that the new Storm Cloud toy has been officially confirmed as G1 Storm Cloud, shouldn't we consider this guy the same as G1 Dropshot until something contradicts it? - Jackpot 23:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. IC79 19:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

It's been contradicted now. How should these two characters be separated, then? The G1 Barrages are Barrage (Insecticon) and Barrage (Micromaster). Dropshot (Micromaster) works, but it would be odd using Dropshot (Classics) or (Universe) for the other Decepticon -- one reference by subgroup, one by franchise. Other thoughts? --Xaaron 17:20, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

How, are they both in AHM 11? - Starfield 17:27, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

No, but they're both in IDW continuity, separately. One is a full-sized Decepticon, the other was one of Jhiaxus's Micromaster minions on Gorlam Prime. One could make up a story where the Decepticons travelled to Gorlam Prime BTS, picked up the Micromaster, and radically altered his appearance before coming to Earth...but it's better to just admit they're two different characters. At least in this continuity. --Xaaron 18:48, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Um, they stay where they are. We place them by the toyline they first appear in. This Dropshot is a G1 toy. The other Dropshot is a Universe toy. —Interrobang 17:45, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Toyline, not continuity family? Okay, I didn't know that was the rule. But they still wouldn't "stay where they are", since the page has to be split. So break it up into Dropshot (G1) for the Micromaster and Dropshot (Universe) for the new IDW character? --Xaaron 18:48, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

They were intended to be the same character by Hasbro, as evidenced by the Bio, Alt Mode, and Tech Specs. IDW is allowed to work with what they're given, and reinterpret them, but should the two interpretations really be separated on the wiki? Is there even a precedent for this, anyway? Antimatter 18:58, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

What are you basing that on? One turns into an armored car with a turret gun, the other into a missile trailer. Micromaster Dropshot's MTMTE bio marks him as a masochist, Universe Dropshot's bio as simply hostile. The Micromaster Patrol members don't HAVE separate Tech Specs, they have different color schemes, so really...what evidence is there of "same character intent"? --Xaaron 20:39, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

There's about to be, with G1 Goldbug likely being a separate dude in Spotlight: Metroplex. --ItsWalky 19:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

There are also two Bombshells in the IDW continuity and both are listed on the same page. I think that is about right. They are the same character, just duplicated. Both Dropshots could be on the same page as well, with a note like Bombshell's. - Starfield 19:43, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

The Bombshells are visibly identical characters for the most part. The Dropshots seem to have nothing in common but their name. Scorponok's buddy Fasttrack and the new IDW Fasttrack from Spotlight: Blurr are on two separate pages, and so should be the Dropshots. --Xaaron 20:39, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Their names, bios, altmodes (generally), and tech specs are the same. - Starfield 21:32, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Like I said above, to Antimatter -- NO, they're not. They are in fact very different. Their vehicle modes are different, their color schemes are different, their personalities are different (One is a masochist who gets off on pain, the other is the aggressive type who never stops fighting), their Bios do not reuse key phrases or "nod" to each other, and the Micromaster does not HAVE Tech Specs of his own to speak of. They are different in every conceivable way besides name and allegience. Slag and Charger are more the same than these two Dropshots. The only thing driving this insistence that they're the same seems to be that if Storm Cloud is the same, than the other Classics Decepticon named after a Micromaster must be, too. --Xaaron 21:49, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Well if their personalities aren't actually the same, then it's splitsville time. --ItsWalky 22:08, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Universe Dropshot and Storm Cloud are very blatantly based on the bios for their G1 patrols. The writer either didn't have access to their individual MTMTE bios or didn't care, but there's a definite and intentional link to the characters' G1 selves. Chip 23:27, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Besides "They fight alot," I don't see that big a connection there, either. Still, now we're in the area of Author intent versus express canon -- Universe Dropshot has only appeared in one fiction, one continuity, and in that continuity he is a separate and distinct character from Micromaster Dropshot. That should be enough to sever the articles. --Xaaron 00:04, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

All the TS numbers are the same. Toywise, it's G1 Dropshot. We do need to split them off because of how they're handled in IDW, but we also need to acknowledge the connection. Chip 06:41, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

If they're reusing Dropshot's toy as a different Dropshot, that might be considered repurposing. --ItsWalky 21:38, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

(I think this is the same idea as "Galvatron is not Megatron." Almost a de-purposing of the character into two seperate characters instead of two separate incarnations. Ditto for Goldbug. (We need a term for this. Mitosis?) -Derik 21:50, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Galvatron doesn't necessarily have to be Megatron if you go just by the toys, and he wasn't in some micro-continuities. Goldbug was Bumblebee everywhere. - Starfield 22:15, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

I don't think Hasbro would really intend to introduce a brand-new character into the "Classic Series." - Starfield 22:15, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Heavy Load. --Xaaron 22:40, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Not to mention the friggin' buttload of Classics Mini-Cons. There are new characters in Classics/Universe, and there have been all along. --ItsWalky 01:20, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Speaking of the Universe toy, what do you think, is that supposed to be Dropshot's body before he was Micromaster-ized? Or was he un-Micromaster-ized? - Starfield 19:47, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Dropshot personalities

Here are the Bios for the two Dropshots:

Dropshot (G1) - Dreamwave's MTMTE Dropshot refuses to be beaten by anything, including pain. He often punishes himself as harshly as he punishes his foes; he sometimes warms up for combat by bashing his head into steel walls. He's infuriated by the prospect of being weaker than any given challenge, so Dropshot will repeat an activity that harmed him again and again until his opposition is destroyed, or he is. Due to his toughness and skill, it has thus far been the former. Dropshot has proclaimed his desire to replace Bombshock as leader of the patrol but was verbally and physically put back in his place by the fearsome elder warrior. Given his masochistic tendencies, it's unlikely Dropshot will stop trying.

Decepticon Dropshot (Universe) - Back of the Box Decepticon Dropshot is always fighting, even when no one else is. He takes every opportunity to pick a fight, and is always the first guy to throw a punch (or fire a missile). If the robot he’s fighting with doesn’t fight back, well, that’s fine with Decepticon Dropshot. The way he looks at it, anyone who doesn’t fight is a coward and deserves a beating. He’s not really interested in having a reason to fight, and he doesn’t care whether his side wins or loses, as long as he gets to pound on someone. Other Decepticons avoid him, unless there are Autobots around for him to pick on.

Both sound very different to me. --Xaaron 22:46, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks, I have never read that MTMTE bio. You are right. He is probably not that Dreamwave guy. But he seems clearly based on a member of the Military Patrol.

Micromaster Military Patrol combined bio:

The The bullies of the battlefield. Learned to fight while terrifying the steel streets of cybertron. As unmerciful and cold as solid ice. Feared by their Autobot enemies for their fierce and unrelenting attacks. Often circle their target, blasting it again and again until nothing but ashes remain. Each firmly convinced he should be the leader of the patrol. Often take potshots at one another out of spite. Constant bickering and refusal to work together make it impossible for them to complete a mission.

Micromaster Military Patrol tech specs and Dropshot (Universe) tech specs:

Strength 10, Intelligence 7, Speed 9, Endurace 6, Teamwork/Rank 7, Courage 9, Firepower 7, Skill 9. - Starfield 00:17, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Well it's not like these Universe bios were ever well-researched. Storm Cloud went from a stupid punk with dellusions of Starscream to a master hacker who scrambles all Autobot frequencies with ease. In spite of this, given Universe Dropshot's sole fictional appearance contradicts his presence on Gorlam Prime (not that that ever stops Shane McCarthy, though), and his color scheme does not reference G1 Dropshot's in any way, I support the move of the Universe toy to its own page. --Detour 00:24, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

If he is moved, I nominate Dropshot (Classic series) and re-nominate Bombshell (All Hail Megatron). - Starfield 00:38, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Well, no. Dropshot is part of Universe, he'd go to Dropshot (Universe). Not like there's another Universe Dropshot to confuse him. As for the other one... well he's every bit as clearly intended to be the same G1 Bombshell, so this falls in the realm of the fiction having to approach the discrepancy straight on, much like we did for Straxus. --Detour 00:59, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

The Dreamwave profiles had similar clashes with the Marvel ones (most Noticable on the Targetmaster partners.)

DW and Marvel both used the original tech-spec as a jump-off point, but didn't take much care to see that they agreed otherwise.

DW's profile was ans extrapolation of Dropshot's quote (the Micromasters all got individual toy quotes) "Hit until it hurts, then hit it again." While the U2008 toy could be another extrapolation of the same quote;

• Different colors
• Different altmode
• "Angry Decepticon who likes to fight" is not a unique personality.

However, tfu.info shows that Classics Dropshot has identical tech-spec numbers to his G1 conterpart, which indicates this is the same guy.

I oppose the proposed split: Universe Dropshot is the same character as G1 Dropshot. -Derik 00:57, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Bah. This is all McCarthy's fault. As usual. --Detour 00:59, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Technically speaking, isn't MM Dropshot a hyper-evolved Gorlami in Revelations?

Jhiaxus did some sort of crazy 'imprinting' on the world to put them into a fugue state... the planet's entire population shut down, underwent chrysalis and woke up-- forgetting they'd ever been organic and believing their world was called Cybertron.

Maybe MM Dropshot is a 'copy' of the same character, like classics Nemesis Prime-- a being sorta 'rewritten' into being a clone like the rewrote the entire PLANET into a clone.

(Gorlam Prime creeps me out. The entire plot... with even the undead Transformers nto really understand what had happened to them, and driven largely by an instinct telling them what they 'must do' stinks of outside interference. And the M.O. matches up unsettlingly with the Vok's stated goals.)

Basically I'm saying that MM Dropshot could be an AU-counterpart of Classics Dropshot, or rather a memory-clone of an AU counterpart. Or he could be a memory stamp OF IDW Dropshot himself if the original ARK had memory engrams onboard when it sailed like the Marvel Ark did. The presence of the micromasters was totally unexplained. It SEEMS like they're gorlami who got abducted early and are 'further along' in their transformation... but they're way further along, like thousands of years. And since the crossover point was in an archaeological dig, it seems like Jihaxus had been working on this for... thousands of years.

(This train of thought makes my face crunch up, because there's some weird timeline stuff and racial mysteries in Movie story, and I really hope it's not a result of world-cloning and the need to create an artificial substitute for Primus that needs to be renewed by draining power instead of being self-renewing.)

Anyway-- MM Dropshot has hundreds or thousands of years of missing time where he was involved with dimension-jumpers. His own origins are a mystery. I think there's enough ambiguity there to simply note- "How odd, he's in two places at once," and move on. -Derik 01:15, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Here's the bottom line as I see it: Even if we accept as fact that Universe Dropshot was intended to be MM Dropshot, it's still just an intent, an implication. Yes, many people want them to be the same. Yes, one can certainly backtrack the Bios and Tech Specs and see a connection between Universe Dropshot and the Decepticon Military Patrol. Yes, one can craft massive fanon explanations for how the Gorlam Prime Micromaster is connected to the Decepticon on Earth in AHM. But, the facts are these.

(1) There is no official source which expressly indicates that the two Dropshots are the same.
(2) There is an official source which expressly indicates that the two Dropshots are two different characters.

It really is that simple. --Xaaron 11:31, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Xaaron's right. T-Wrecks's tech specs intend him to be Grimlock, but fiction says otherwise. Dropshot (Universe) it is. --ItsWalky 12:53, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Dropshot (Universe)

"Classics"? I don't think that's appropriate here. "Classics" rather specifically refers to the FP continuity that uses the "Classics" toys, doesn't it? G1-esque Universe 2.0 figures that show up in IDW G1-esque comics aren't "Classics."--G.B. Blackrock 00:07, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Wasn't he marked "Classics Series" on the packaging?--Rosicrucian^Talk 00:08, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Yes, he was. His packaging specifically said he was Classics. --ItsWalky 00:19, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

You mean "Classic Series." There's no S. I tend to think of that component of the Universe line as separate from Classics-proper. --KilMichaelMcC 00:33, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

You're right. Classic Series Prowl isn't part of the rest of Classics-which-is-G1-characters-reimagined-with-new-toys because there's no S. --ItsWalky 00:43, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Classic Series Prowl isn't part of Classics-the-franchise-which-ended-before-his-toy-was-released-in-a-different-franchise. --KilMichaelMcC 00:48, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

....so, should we take the "Armada Series" Mini-Cons out of the "Armada characters" category? --ItsWalky 00:54, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Heh. I had, in fact, just thought of that one myself. And no, that would be stupid. Still, it never would have occurred to me that Dropshot was be viewed as a "Classics character." But, for the sake of consistency, this article should probably remain in that category. --KilMichaelMcC 00:57, 20 June 2009 (EDT)

Variation or factory error?

Ben Yee reviewed a Dropshot without paint on his face. --Detour 00:08, 6 February 2010 (EST)

Might just not be the final production version. I think Ben gets samples from Hasbro. --ItsWalky 00:21, 6 February 2010 (EST)

Universe Dropshot = G1 Dropshot?

Given that we have both the Micromaster and Cybertronian versions of IDW Blackjack on the same page despite their contradictory everything, and would probably do the same for Tailwind if Windrim didn't exist, should this page be merged with Dropshot (G1)? Even if not, I think the Universe Dropshot toy should probably go on G1 Dropshot's page as well as this one. Riptide (talk) 11:31, 24 July 2015 (EDT)

I've noticed this too. And I've thought of a potential solution. We reclassified the Gorlamite Tailwind as his Japanese counterpart Windrim. Why don't we do the same for the Gorlamite Dropshot since there is also a separate Japanese Dropshot? And then merge Universe 2008 Dropshot with G1 Dropshot. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 01:16, 18 August 2015 (EDT)

I feel like we should avoid being clever for the sake of being clever. --Giggidy (talk) 02:50, 18 August 2015 (EDT)

I think we started with cleverness-for-the-sake-of-cleverness when we moved Gorlamite Tailwind to Windrim, but I do kind of agree that moving Gorlamite Dropshot to ROC Dropshot would be a little obtuse. I wouldn't object to it, as long as there was a note in G1 Dropshot's IDW G1 continuity entry, but if you're doing that then you might as well just leave them on the same page. In any case, though, this page should probably be Blackjacked. --Riptide (talk) 05:05, 18 August 2015 (EDT)