Talk:Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes

Limits

... You know, if it's going to be "popular" alternate modes, it should be a form that at least, you know, more than two people share. I say three seperate characters (if not three different MOLDS) is the bare minimum. -hx 03:13, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Me, I'd say five to six characters, with preferably a minimum of three or four different "molds" (since some of these bodies/characters may end up as fiction-only). Rampant redecoing is kinda cheating. --M Sipher 03:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I think we also have to be kind of tough on what counts. For cars, it should be same make and model. For critters, though, I'm gonna have to go with same general species. "Scorpions" seems acceptable to me, but "birds" doesn't. You'd have to do something more like "falcons" or "eagles" for it to seem alright. I dunno why. Also, what do we do with Fuzors? I'm kind of loath to include the Sharkticons and Seacons and shit, but, say, Overbite's bio identifies him as a "shark," while Snapdragon's just calls him a "reptile." -hx 22:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

For invertebrates, I don't know HasTak have ever made multiple distinct species, so the way we count scorpions and crabs is fine. Spiders might be the exception there. The vertebrate section, however, is a MESS. We have a "wolves" section that excludes the domestic subspecies of Canis lupus, and then an entire order of mammals lumped together as "bats". Vertebrates should probably be broken down by species, although that makes a mess of bears. Breaking it down by genus, though, would lump together the lions, tigers, and jaguars... which is just wrong. -Rotty 23:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

This just seems to be the way humans think about other animals--there's a strong pro-mammal bias. Every child can identify mammal species on sight ("wolf," "lion," "tiger," "gorilla"), but more distantly related animals are usually known only at the order or even subclass level ("parrot", "shark"). Their kind all look alike. --Thylacine 2000 00:49, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Aaron Archer doesn't care about black-winged Macaws (or whatever). -hx 01:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed Thy, I was thinking just that as I wrote it. It's what we're stuck with though, since HasTak really DID make the crabs and scorpions to all look alike. The ones we need to clean up are "bats" and "sharks"... -Rotty 01:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, aside from K-9, have there BEEN any other TF non-wolf-canines? That hyena guy, I guess. I think the other issue is that "lions" is gonna have twelve guys, tops. "Big cats" is more like 40 guys. If we're going to do this at ALL, we should err on the side of making it manageable, and if that means dividing mammals more than dividing invertebrates, then I'm all for it. (also, seriously, we need a "two headed monster" category.) -hx 01:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Hoop, hyenas are Feliforms. Canis is just wolves (including the domestic dog and dingo), the coyote, and jackals. :) -Rotty 01:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I think this page is a useful reference whenever three or more characters from multiple molds share a vehicle mode. In the case of rampant redecoing, that mold's section on each character's toy page covers the body-sharing, so we should delete things like the Volkswagen Beetle. -Rotty 03:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

We are getting a section on Tigers, right? -Derik 03:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind seeing this article changed from "popular" to "shared," and have no numerical restrictions, just list all specific alt modes that more than one character uses. --KilMichaelMcC 03:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Then we're basically making the page utterly redundant and useless, since we're talking what, half the TF cast?

This is looking at the phenomenon of certain alternate mode models popping up more often than others, and across multiple unique toy molds. There are a LOT of unique Dassault Rafale jets in TFdom. A LOT of that Fizzle-style Baja Buggy. A LOT of those huge earth-mover dump-trucks. Two characters having the same altmode over almost 25 years doesn't quite impress, especially considering the sheer amount of redecoing of molds going on. --M Sipher 04:24, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, with the section on beast modes containing only lions, tigers, and bears, it's practically crying out for an "Oh My" header. Any Transformers that turn into beasts that are so utterly bizarre no one has any idea what they hell they are? - Dark T Zeratul 08:05, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Enough of them that are similar enough to each other to make up a listing on this page? Without checking, I'd say "probably not". --Sntint 13:57, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The only "monster" types I could even remotely entertain doing an entry here for would be "two headed dragon" (Hun-Grarararrrrugh, Doublecross, etc.) and "bug monster" (Repugnus, Repugnus) -hx 21:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Requirements and cleanup

I think it's time we took a serious look at this page. It's currently a damn sprawling mess.

1. First of all... let's decide on a "minimum requirements". I think the primary one should be "at least three unique 'molds' across as many different characters", (which would include instances like the IDW characters who have different model altmodes from their originals).
   
2. Next... what counts as "close enough"? Neither make of Ferrari goes over two molds, but the two makes are pretty damn close visually.
   
3. Let me propose this as an alternate method of listing to cut waaaaaay back on vertical space... it would need to be noted up top that these are grouped by mold, but still.

• RID Side Burn / Universe Roulette / Universe Shadow Striker

• RID Side Burn (Spychanger) / G1 Jazz (Universe)

• G1 Sideswipe (Alternators) / Dead End (Alternators) / Sunstreaker (Alternators)

• Hot Rod (IDW comic, non-toy appearance)

Just kicking around stuff. --M Sipher 01:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

"Three molds" is definitely the right threshold. For the vehicles, your format looks good. None of the vehicular mold mates on this list are retooled to represent different models, so it works. Animal mold mates DO get turned into different species, though. -Rotty 01:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I can get behind "three molds," most def. I would argue that with autos, it should be make and model, but not necessarily year. The Mustang gets in, because there are three Mustang TFs, even though one is a first-gen and the other two are fifth-gen. The Ferraris don't, I don't think, 'cause they're different models. -hx 01:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I've only left the Ferraris in because you'd think that, like the Porsches and Lamborghinis, at least one of their supercars would have a mold threepeat in the 23-year history of the brand and it just wasn't coming to mind. -Rotty 01:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Would Dromaeosauridae (raptors and Deinonychus) count? It's got a mold (Beast Wars Dinobot) shared by three characters, another mold (Transmetal 2 Dinobot) shared by two characters, and a retool (Thrustor) for one character. Interrobang 03:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

No. We should only include individual species of vertebrates. "Dromaeosauridae" is waaay out of line, and there are only two unique molds anyway. The list you're making in the Sandbox is really flawed, with a "Walrus" list consisting entirely of a Pretender shell being indicative of how problematic it is. -Rotty 03:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

That list only exists so I can keep track of how many Transformers fall under whatever classification. I'm not going to place it in here. Jesus, no. Regardless, the reason I put in "Dromaeosauridae" is because people can't seem to make up their mind on what exact species the two molds are. Interrobang 03:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

On Beasts...

Or, more accurately, Beast Wars. I gotta be honest. I'm... not really thinking that including BW is a good idea, and I'm even questioning "beast modes" altogether. I mean... "Bears" is not the same level of specific classification as "Dassault Rafales". Which was kind of the point of the article... "ain't there a lot of Dassault Rafales" is considerably more curious than "ain't there a lot of sorta t-rexes", given the wide variety of fighter jet makes.
And even with the fudging made to avoid licensing on many a vehicle mode... it's nowhere as much fudging as the likes of the Cheetor mold, which has been used to be a cheetah, a tiger and a panther, three pretty damn different types of big cat. BM probably not either. Most of the organic beast modes are... really, really vague and bad representations of actual animals, as much so as the wholly-mechanical ones where Ravage being a jaguar is mostly a matter of "okay, if you say so". Damn guy could be a puma, cheetah, cougar... --M Sipher 03:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeeah. While I like the concept, it all needs too much hand-waving for my liking. We have to pack all spiders together to make a decent list, even though the species are as different as lions are to tigers. Arbitrary criteria isn't something we can do away with in animals. Interrobang 04:03, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I freely admit I added the beast section in the first place because I wanted to mock this article. That said, I think it's a legitimate section (albeit of an article I find silly.)

...you should dump the fuzors though. -Derik 06:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Beast split

I'm going to remove the beasts from this page and create one called "Popular beast modes" if there is no objection. The feeling seems to be that having lists for Gorilla, Canis, Tyrannosaurus, etc. is useful but can't be measured by the same standard as "Man, there sure are a lot of Lamborghini Diablos". -Rotty 05:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Brawl is not an Abrams

Well, no more than the Rattler is an A-10. He was a repurposed "stealth tank" from XXX: State of the Union. -Rotty 05:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Siren/RX-7

Since two people seem to be against me on this I figured I'd post some photographic proof: [1]

Note the lack of secondary headlights on the Supra that are clearly present on the RX-7, among other glaringly obvious differences. I hope that clears everything up. Detour 08:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with Detour, being a mechanic. Siren/Go Shooter is much more like a FC3S 2nd Generation RX-7 then the Supra. I can see why people might think it's a Mark II or Mark III of Toyota's turn from Celica Supra to just plain Supra, but the FC3S has more of the little details that show that it's more like it. Also the rear lights on the Siren/Go Shooter toy have more of the curvature of a RX-7 FC3S Savanna.

Siren

Supra

RX-7

Note Siren's (okay, Go Shuta's - Siren's hood emblem is more distracting) centerline hood bump, absent on any of the appropriate model-year RX-7s, as well as the prominent front fender. Also notice the lack of an air intake on the toy as seen on the FC3S. If you ask me, the problem here is that the animators have decided to draw some other car for the cartoon - much like they did with all the Combaticons.

I find it highly unlikely that two white cars were both intended by Hasbro and Takara to be RX-7s in the same year. Getaway is inarguably an RX-7 Turbo II.

I don't care enough about this page to try to decide how this affects Siren's listing on it. -LV 14:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

This isn't my area of expertise at all, but, if there is a seemingly legitimate uncertainty due to hybridized features or something, it is far better to explicitly note this in the article (regardless of where he's placed) than to just pick one or the other with no explanation. --Steve-o 17:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The example you used in your photos is the FB3S, the first generation of the RX-7 line, not a good example. Also the FC3S came without the hood air intake also, just it's difficult to find a photo of one on short notice, the one pictured was the Savanna model, the more sporty version.

It's like Proto said, not all models of the RX-7 came with a hood air intake. Here's one without: [2]. Steve-O, I don't think there's uncertainty since I pretty much recognized Siren as being an RX-7 right away. I'm a Supra worshipper... if Siren was a Supra, I'd have recognized it and I'd be the first one flipping out with joy over it and pointing it out on the respective articles.

Also, what's wrong with having two distinct toys sharing an alt mode in the same year? 1984 gave us two different Lamborghini toys, didn't it? And in 1985 we got both Camshaft and the RX-7 Minispy.

You have yet to address the blatant difference in the front fascia between the matching Siren and Supra and the RX-7, as well as centerline hood bulge, which still do not match using your new picture. Removal of the hood air intake does not make the lines of the front end or hood match. -LV 01:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Big Trucks

Did someone forgot to put the Peterbilt 379 in this section? Optimus turns into a civilian vehicle.

The word you're missing is "Popular." In other words, something more than one Transformer turns into. Please read! It's essential. --ItsWalky 02:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

You and I know how many semi trucks are there in the G1 Series.(76.195.186.73 00:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC))

Space Shuttles

There is already three space shuttles can you please put it down on the article? Astrotrain, Jetfire and Sky Lynx are the same American Space Shuttles.(76.213.157.97 00:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC))

Jetfire has never been an American space shuttle. His Armada form is similar but still quite Cybertronian. Blast Off however qualifies easily.--Rosicrucian^Talk 00:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

There's also Mach, the Micromaster Combiners shuttle, the Sixwing component, and Galaxy Shuttle. --FortMax 02:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Military tanks

Since this only includes one particular tank, I don't think it needs its own sub-heading. I propose it and "Military aircraft" be combined into "Military vehicles", or "Military hardware". Any objections? --Sntint 23:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Works for me. Military ground vehicles outside of the "traditional" tanks don't seem to be too common in TFdom, do they. --M Sipher 23:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Aircraft

Are you sure that many transformers turn into F-15s and F-22s?(MARV 2000 23:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC))

This page is missing the SR-71 Blackbird. Micromaster Vanquish and Fireshot, possibly Micromaster Whisper, Minicon Terradive, and ROTF Jetfire. (Gobots Snoop, too, but that's off-topic)

Vanquish/Fireshot and Jetfire are SR-71s but Whisper is based on one of the many supposed F-19 designs and Terradive is only vaguely similar to an SR-71. That makes only 2 molds, it takes a minimum of 3 molds to get on this page. --Khajidha 14:50, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

Snapdragon and Overlord are also SR-71s. (7 years later? better late than never!) -- Repowers (talk) 14:08, 15 January 2018 (EST)

Nissan Z

With Classics Prowl well on his way, would the Z series be considered a popular altmode, given the 280Z (Prowl, Bluestreak, Smokescreen), the 300ZX (Streetwise) and the 350Z (Classics Prowl)? --74.57.3.251 21:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC) (Detour at work)

Your wish. My command. Panopticon 18:31, 24 November 2011 (EST) (Panopticon)

Aircraft Carriers

What about them? We have Flattop, Broadside (G1) and Tidal Wave (Armada) and maybe some more which I'm not aware of. That's enough, or not? I'm not sure where to put them, "military vehicles" or "miscallenous". --2A6 22:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, Flattop's alt mode is a jet, he just comes with another jet that turns into an aircraft carrier. - Semysane 01:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Majin Zarak qualifies, though.--Rosicrucian^Talk 01:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm kind of loath to do "aircraft carrier" because that's kind of vague - if Recharge were here, he could probably clarify, but I'm pretty sure that "aircraft carrier" is like "racing motorcycle" - there are a lot of different designs out there, and some of them are probably fudged for TFs sake. If someone who knew what they were talking about (like 'Charge) could actually sit down and go "Tidal Wave, Broadside, and Flattop's carrier are all Nimitz-class carriers or close enough," then go for it. Otherwise it's like saying that Groove, Glide, and RiD Axer all belong together because they're touring bikes. (note that I don't think this is gonna happen, because Tidal Wave's carrier is basically a marginally better depiction of an aircraft carrier than Grandus.) -hx 11:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm with Hoop on this. I mean, we do have one kinda-vague set, the Baja buggy... but at least that one has a fairly hefty group of dudes in that form (plus I don't know if there even IS a "brand" for them). If you're kinda struggling for three... --M Sipher 13:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I also had that thought about the necessity of specific types/classes of carriers when I wrote the initial post, but then again I thought that Aircraft carriers should be treated as a single group, mainly because the TF Aircraft carrier-designs are pretty generic and stylized and those differences and details which an expert would look for at real carriers are simply not present at those lil' toys. I mean, to make a car into an 4" toy, it only has to be downsized to a scale of 1:50 or so, to make a 4 inch toy out of an aircraft carrier means a scale of 1:"severalhundred". Thus a lot more details are ironed out. But it's your decision, not mine. --2A6 23:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

If I felt that the TF aircraft carriers were designed with even a REMOTE eye for accuracy, I'd be more willing to consider it, but as it stands, the TF carriers are all *very* crude approximations, even taking toy scale into issue - they're better at being aircraft carriers than say, Grandus or Majin Zarak, but they're all still basically "big flat thing with a little towery bit=aircraft carrier." -hx 01:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Dassault Rafaele

G2 Eagle Eye is listed here as a Rafaele, but his page calls him a EF2000 Eurofighter. Which is it? --Xaaron 17:24, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Construction Vehicles

For a project I'm working on, I'd like to be able to source the various construction vehicles. I think quite a few fulfil the rules above. One problem is the two sides of the Atlantic use different terms. On the east we use terms like cement mixers, diggers and er, other terms I haven't used since I was 6! Drmick 10:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Motorcycles

Likewise for the same reasons above. Specific model types of motor-cycles (as is applied to cars) might be being a bit too strict. Drmick 10:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

VW Beetle

Um... IDW Goldbug doesn't actually turn into a VW, does he? I thought he was a Cybertronian whatever. So we're still at only two for this one. --M Sipher 14:49, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

IDW Goldbug doesn't turn into a VW, but surely the Goldbug toy that he's based on is still associated with the character. Besides ... Donald Duck, completely separate character, so whether or not you count Goldbug, we're at three. --Jimsorenson 15:38, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

I don't know that I would consider the original Goldbug toy an IDW Goldbug. Especially since it was designed to be a renamed/rebuilt Bumblebee and was a renamed/rebuilt Bumblebee for over 20 years. Donald Duck is the only VW Beetle toy that was not first made and marketed as the Bumblebee character. Until we get a VW Beetle toy that is explicitly supposed to be IDW Goldbug, we shouldn't include him. --M Sipher 15:55, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

The requirement isn't that the toy is first made and marketed as a new character though, just that it exists. Characters like Volks and Bugbite and Glyph certainly count as a different mold/character use, even if they were Bumblebee first. As for repurposed toys, I think they're totally valid. You MIGHT hang an argument on the idea that the Goldbug toy doesn't match up with the IDW body depiction of the character, but that's a slippery slope. Animated Blackouts only ever appears as a Cybertronian jet, but you'd still associate his character with the Earth mode helicopter toy, no? Long story short, Beetles have many, many molds and many, many characters. This includes at least 3, possibly 4, unique character/mold designations. At this point, to not include him would be silly. --Jimsorenson 16:34, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Well, the requirement is at least that an existing toy repurposed is officially stated to be that certain other character, I would think? The Animated Blackout toy is officially Blackout even if we never see him in fiction as the Earth helicopter. And folks like the Shattered Glass characters are officially shown/said to be certain toys. But we got zip that officially says or shows that IDW Goldbug = toy Goldbug. --Jeysie 16:46, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Really? Would you seriously put forth the proposition that the IDW Throttlebots are not based on the Throttlebot toys? The funny thing is, it doesn't even matter for this argument. With or without Goldbug, Beetles qualify. I therefor propose that we move this discussion over to the Goldbug (IDW) page where it belongs.--Jimsorenson 16:54, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

I'd put forth that they're based on the Throttlebot characters, obviously. Whether they're based on the toys is another matter entirely, considering that they don't even have Earth modes yet to judge from. --Jeysie 17:08, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

No, Beetles would not qualify. Every VW Beetle mold that is not Donald Duck was first designed for and sold as the character of Bumblebee, even if one was Bumblebee with a different name. Redecos are not qualifications, new characters or not, otherwise this list would be way, way longer. And it is kind of pointless to go "look, a toy of the exact same character as another toy shares an altmode!", so "World's Smallest" toys are out too. --M Sipher 17:56, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Siph, I love you but you're just flat out wrong on this. The qualifications listed on the page are: "There must be at least three unique toy molds (or in-fiction appearances, in the case of non-toy bodies/characters) that share the model. There must also be at least one unique character per mold." We never say anything about 'the first use of the mold has to be a different character than the first use of the other molds.' If you think that the requirement for inclusion should change, well, that's a completely separate argument. We've got three characters across three molds - let's say World's Smallest/Bumblebee, 1984 VW mold/Bug Bite, and the Disney Label / Donald Duck here. It doesn't matter that Bug Bite shares a mold with Bumblebee. If it did, then every time a later redeco comes out that homages an earlier character, we'd have to go and start removing popular alt modes, and that's lunacy.--Jimsorenson 18:13, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Then the top is worded wrong. Look at the other lists as they are now. Not a one counts same-character-same-altmode-different-toys to get up to three, because "three different molds made for three different characters" is what we've been using as the yardstick. And I have no clue what you're on about for removing entries based on later homages. The point is the original toys' design intent. That so many different toy molds were developed to be different characters yet kept going back to specific vehicle makes is the point of the article. It is not interesting when a single character has a bunch of different molds all based on a single alternate mode. That's expected. Nor is it interesting when a mold is redecoed to be another character; that too is very very commonplace. We list each mold's redecos out of completeness/linking-to-more-obscure-stuff's sake, not as a yardstick (and we shouldn't list same-character redecos like "Red Bumblebee" because holy fuck would that make some listings, such as the G2 Go-Bots molds, stupidly long for no good reason). It is the creation of an entirely new mold based on a recurring vehicle that is a character who hasn't been one of those yet (be it because they didn't exist previously or had another alternate mode) that's the oddity. --M Sipher 18:30, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

OK, the discussion becomes, what SHOULD the criteria for inclusion be, since apparently you're not happy with the way it's been listed out for the past, I dunno, year or so? I'm not sure I see how it's relevant what the designers intention is. I mean, technically, the 1984 Bumblebee toy wasn't intended to be Bumblebee, or even a real car, at all, right? It was intended to be a penny racer in the Microman line. So, then, you have one toy that was intended to be something not Bumblebee and repurposed and redecoed into a bunch of guys (including Bumblebee), then a few toys intended to be Bumblebee, then a toy intended to be Donald Duck. So we're STILL ok, even by the 'designer intention' criteria you proposed above. --Jimsorenson 18:54, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

Buses?

What's the feeling on buses? The article for Ironhide (Animated) says he's a minibus (although Cybertronian, so that may not count). Additionally, the school bus at Murray Wright High School has a notation that says it's actually the FOURTH bus Transformer. Granted, I think all these buses have been different models (double-decker, metro, school, etc.) so they still might not be appropriate... Skyshock Thunderblast 12:22, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

For this article, we'd pretty much need to know the specific models of the buses - we can't just put "Bus" on the list. -Mazenoise 12:30, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, thought so. Most of the buses are all really small or really hidden, and even if I knew the models, they'd all be different. I should've thought of that. Skyshock Thunderblast 19:42, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

F-35 Lightning II

There is already 4 transformers that turn into an F-35 Lightninh II and that's breakaway, sunstorm, armada thrust and rotf thrust(Dr L 13:22, 14 September 2009 (EDT))

That's only two molds. --Detour 13:25, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

Armada Thrust is 1

Breakaway and his other 2 redecos are 2

Finally Skyquake is 3. (173.196.186.120 13:24, 28 September 2011 (EDT))

Should Skyfeather be included on the list? They're minor as all hell but they seem pretty bang-on for an F-35, just with lift fans in the wings... (Aurus 15:09, 30 July 2023 (PDT))

Eurocopter Dauphin

Revenge of The Fallen Blaze Master is listed here as a Dauphin, but his own page says he is a Bell 412. He certainly looks more like the Bell to me. If we remove him from the Dauphin listing, the whole section must go away. Just looking for agreement before proceeding. Khajidha 13:21, 16 November 2009 (EST)

Removed section due to lack of response to above notice. Khajidha 17:52, 21 November 2009 (EST)

H-Tank

I know this page isn't the right place as they're not Earth vehicles and would need to be a specific model anyway, but given the TF-unique nature of the H-tank, should we have something listing all of them? Apologies if there already is such a list (or a discussion of this elsewhere), but I couldn't find one. J'mie 16:50, 23 February 2010 (EST)

Anyone want to weigh in on this H-tank thing?Skyshock Thunderblast 20:21, 2 February 2011 (EST)

Given the original comment was made a year ago, I guess the answer is "No". It wouldn't belong in this article at any rate, as it's not an Earth mode. --abates 20:56, 2 February 2011 (EST)

Wikipedia links

Would anyone object to adding links to the Wikipedia articles for the real-world vehicles? --Khajidha 12:26, 31 December 2010 (EST)

Modified designs

How do we treat vehicle designs that have been modified by Hasbro to circumvent licensing? How do we treat full-on hybrid designs, such as Reveal the Shield Windcharger (60% Ford Mustang, 40% Chevrolet Camaro)?--87.164.51.87 08:23, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

And why was I not logged in?--Nevermore 08:24, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

Battle Mole/Drill Tank

While in real life the Battle Mole was a flop they seem to have caught on in the transformers universes and other fictions as it has appeared several times as an earth mode, it was used by

Quickswitch/Sixknight Nosecone (G1) Drillhorn/Rescue Force 3 Digger 3 Galvatron (BWII)

These are just the ones who use it as an earth mode there are a few others that have drill tanks as cybertronian modes. While they do not exist in real life it is a popular earth vehicle mode. Any objections to adding this

Yes, there are objections. First, it isn't an earth vehicle because it doesn't exist. Second, the characters listed vary wildly in what the drill tank looks like. They aren't so much the same vehicle, only the same type of vehicle. This would be like adding the categories "car", "jet", "tank" and "motorcycle". --Khajidha 10:00, 13 October 2011 (EDT)

Funny Cars

I figured this was a worthwhile addition - while there are some distinct differences between the three molds, some of them seem largely due to the toy design (Sizzle's oddly-shaped rear is necessary for robot-mode stability, while Ground Hog has no such concerns) - I could see the case that Meanstreak is a different model from the other two, but I'd chalk that up to ten years of changes in funny car racing (compare a late 80s NASCAR stocker with a mid 90s one). This is, of course, specifically for the dragster-style funny cars, and not for other dragsters or similar (although I think there's only one of those anyway). -hx 13:50, 1 May 2012 (EDT)

Sector 7 Buggy?

Just wondering how/if we should count the RPM line? I think the only new addition to this list would be "Sector 7 Buggy" for Landmine/L.M.-1/Armorhide/Comettor (Deluxe), Dune Runner/Crankstart/Rollbar/Beachcomber/Sandstorm (Basic) and then the RPM of Rollbar. Given that we had so many stinkin' redecos of the first two molds, I think "Sector 7 Buggy" is a worthwhile addition. The RPMs had limited fiction, so I'm inclined to accept them as "earth modes" if they're obviously something (Landmine yes, Bluestreak the RPM Sideswipe redeco that doesn't actually look like a Corvette, no.) -hx 11:00, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

Self-replying - I think this adds the Audi R8 as well - You've got RPM, Legends, and Deluxe versions of Sideways, plus one extra character of each mold - RPM Crumplezone, Legends Override, and Deluxe Dead End. I'll hold off on this one for some feedback, though. -hx 11:41, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

The page description requires "one unique character per mold". The RPM Landmine mold has no unique characters. --flicky1991 11:42, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

I don't think that requirement is actually phrased very well. The way it is phrased means that if we had three molds made for character A in the same alt mode one of which was later redecoed into character B and another of which was redecoed into character C, that would not count. I don't think that that is truly what was intended. --Khajidha 13:08, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

Hang on - I think I'm in the wrong here, otherwise Pretender Bumblebee would be listed separately - 'Goldbug' here is IDW Goldbug, who's a separate guy. I take it back, the Sector 7 buggy doesn't get a listing. (But the Audi R8 totally does.) -hx 13:17, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

Followup - Yeah, based on that big slapfight between Jim and Sipher up there, the buggy is out, but the Audi is in. -hx 13:19, 19 March 2013 (EDT)

G1 Drag Strip and real open-wheel types?

I noticed that Drag Strip (G1) didn't have an entry under the Open Wheel Race Car section, even though his alt-form should qualify. Also, since model variants have been listed in other sections, would it be acceptable to list the real-life equivalents in this section to those that are applicable? Examples: Mirage (G1) (Ligier JS-11); Drag Strip (G1) (Tyrell P34), Mirage (MW)/et al. (Penske PC-18). (Not going to make changes myself unless I get an OK here.) Kyojikasshu (talk) 12:46, 27 June 2014 (EDT) (minor edit to fix Mirage's link...)Kyojikasshu (talk) 12:47, 27 June 2014 (EDT)

Porsche / Le Mans

Tailspin, Daytonus, and Backstreet are listed under Porsche 962, but also under Le Mans racers. I don't know enough about cars to make the edit, but it has got to be one or the other, right? --Xaaron (talk) 17:38, 27 June 2014 (EDT)

i don't know cars well, either, but the top pic at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_962 shows a car "which raced at the 1988 24 Hours of Le Mans". After a VERY cursory browse of Wikipedia, i THINK the Porsche 962 is a TYPE of Le Mans Prototype sports prototype race car? So it's kind of like if Tracks (G1), Freeway (G1), and Sideswipe (Movie) were all listed under "Corvette", and listed again under "Chevrolet". --Rhymus (talk) 05:39, 23 January 2015 (EST)

taxi cabs?

Not counting the battle taxis from the G1 cartoon's City of Steel (episode), only three Transformers are taxis: Taxi-Bot, Overcharge, and one version of Bumblebee.

i was thinking about putting that as a note on those three characters' pages (my gut tells me the rarity is noteworthy), but then i realized that taxi cabs meet the criteria from this article's intro:

There must be at least three unique toy molds (or in-fiction appearances, in the case of non-toy bodies/characters) that share the model. There must also be at least one unique character per mold. Certain models are "lumped" together...

Then again, are these three different enough not to be "lumped" together? the same way that Prowl (G1), Stakeout (G1), and Barricade (Movie) don't get lumped together as "Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes: police cars". In that case, should i add my note to the three Taxi-formers' pages, or is the rarity of their alternate mode too trivial for TFWiki? --Rhymus (talk) 05:29, 23 January 2015 (EST)

Freightliner WFT-8664T

Should we add it in? I believe it fits the criteria; both Optimus Prime (G1 and SG), Ultra Magnus (G1), Delta Magnus, Nemesis Prime/Black Convoy (G1), and the Eldedroids share the same truck cab, plus there are at least 6 different unique ‎Freightliner molds. The first being in G1 with Optimus, his retool Magnus, and their redecos. Then the second, third, forth, and fifth, being all three Optimus versions and the second version of Ultra Magnus, and their many redecos. --DDog (talk) 22:37, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

Where are the trucks?

There’s got to be more trucks than the ones Optimus uses.

I was wondering that myself. Then I started thinking of a larger question about these pages and the limitations placed on them. What is the point of these limited lists? So I'm going to ask. --Vanya (talk) 21:58, 11 May 2025 (EDT)

What is the use of these "Popular" alternate mode pages?

The article explains that the policies in place are to keep the article in line with "the phenomenon being explored". But I call into question whether that phenomenon is actually being explored at all. The article also asks, "after all, isn't it kinda weird that out of all the myriad types of fighter jet there are in the world, that the Dassault Rafale in particular seems to pop up so often across soooooo many jet-form toy-characters?" To which I have to point out that making a list of those Transformers with that alt mode does absolutely nothing to answer that question. I could understand if each section included information about why these alt modes are popular, but it doesn't and the linked articles don't shed any light on it at all.

So what's the point of these alt mode articles in the first place?

I personally use these pages for two purposes: 1) To try to find a character when I can only remember what their alt mode is. 2) To look for other characters that share the same alt mode (usually for the purpose of finding a character I can use for a custom figure).

However, in their current state, these articles are often useless because of their limitations. And some of the pages are almost entirely useless because they are just articles that I have to comb through in order to find the information I'm looking for (licensed alt modes), or contain links to articles that must be combed through (non-vehicle non-beast). Some pages have the same limitations, but the categories are so broad (Cybertronian alt modes) that way more characters are included than on other lists. Despite having these limitations (for what I find to be an outdated reason, verticality of pages) there is actually very little consistency between these like articles.

So I ask again, what is the purpose of these pages? If it's to examine the phenomenon of common alt modes, then let's see some actual information in these pages about it.

However, if the purpose is more so ease of research, I propose these pages be overhauled and expanded. Instead of limiting what characters can be listed on a couple pages covering a broad class of transformations, I feel it would be far more useful to instead have multiple pages with more focused, less limited lists. For example Popular Earth modes can easily be split into Civilian Ground Vehicles, Civilian Aircraft, Military Ground Vehicles, Military Aircraft, and Watercraft (since there are so few boats, ships, and submarines). A page could be added specifically for Fictional alt modes that don't fit a make or model to go along with the Licensed alt mode page (with the licensed page being expanded to include non-toy characters as well). These pages could be an invaluable research tool that is simpler and quicker to use than the search bar.

-- Vanya (talk) 21:58, 11 May 2025 (EDT)