Talk:Slipstream (Animated)

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Y'know it just occured to me that the bright blue on her legs and wings is pretty much exactly the blue of G1 Starscream's Pretender shell. Could be a chance thing but especially on the legs it really recalls that toy to me. --ZacWilliam 17:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I have gone over the Screamer clones so many times it is giving me a headache, but I finaly thought that there is not a clone that is the tracherous(spelling) side of him other than the female. She seems to be the closest one, from my point of view anyway. Does anyone else have an idea?HotRodimus 02:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes I have! I think she's supposed to represent sadism in a non-sexual way. It's pretty much known that sadism is not a trait defined by 'explicit actions' to call it that way - it's an overall joy in hurting others and causing physical or mental harm to living beings and Slipstream does seem to feel very comfortable with cursing, verbally attacking and hurting others for no particular reason (she intended to shoot Starscream out of the air by mere noticing him [which turned out a mistake anyway]). Sadism is also something one would most likely not want to think about in regard to Starscream and it's maybe not too appropriate for a childrens show, so they just didn't mention it with words. Who knows, maybe there even IS a sexual note to it. would be one more reason to just call her the girl you 'better not ask' about. --Aureole 12:14, 15 May 2010 (EDT)

Rimmer theme captions

I think a good option to continue the theme would be something like the "What the hell, I just won't tell her" from Rimmerworld, or one of the ones from Terrorform. If anyone agrees, can I upload an image with such a caption?KrytenKoro 09:53, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

There's also She-Rimmer from Parallel Universe... - SanityOrMadness 22:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Pretender Starscream

At one point I'd added in that her teal lower and grey upper legs, and really the placement of all the grey above, very much echo Starscream's Pretender shell. Someone deleted that with out giving a reason, but it's true, it's relevant, and it's a close as G2 Ramjet is really. I feel like it should be there as an observation at least. (Pretender Screamer is really all I can think of when I look at her pic in that section.) Objections? --71.235.142.128 02:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

If she was meant to be the shell, she'd have the shell's layout. But she doesn't. She wouldn't have a mainly purple torso, and she'd have brown gauntlets and a brown helmet. The note does not say "based on G2 Ramjet", its says "shares predominant colors with but everything's laid out completely differently", and explained in-depth to note that it is likely NOT supposed to be G2 Ramjet. --M Sipher 02:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I guess I just don't see the difference between saying "She's got colors like G1 Ramjet but not the layout, it's probably a coincidence." and saying "She's got several of the colors AND some of the layout of Starscream's Shell but it'a probably a coincidence". I just think that if the likeness to one is close enough to rate a mention so is the other. --71.235.142.128 02:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Part of the difference is that you're the first person to say "Pretender shell", where almost five seconds after she appeared, the intarwebs-at-large declared her (erroneously) to be G2 Ramjet. Listing EVERY theory anyone ever had would quickly fill up space for not good reason (like the theory that Dion got turned into Huffer). --M Sipher 02:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

"The intarwebs-at-large said she was G2 Ramjet"? I saw more "Dirge" speculation (stirred up by the Dubai spoilers) than G2 Ramjet speculation. Galvanisation 02:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

tragic past

i think she'd consider her past tragic, coming from Starscream and all. Maybe a little comment on that? Not Steve^{complain here}_{The Big Book} 19:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe? She hates him, but she hates pretty much anybody I guess --Aureole 19:13, 28 May 2010 (EDT)

Spoiler in the Edit History D:

Is there any way to get rid of that spoiler I stupidly stuck into my edit comment? I can't believe I suffered such a brain-fart D: Magaroja 11:13, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

Can we just call her Mega?

She hasn't technically been named anywhere, but since that's who her colours are based on... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.71.8.91 (talk • contribs) 22:49, 17 May 2009.

No. --M Sipher 23:03, 17 May 2009 (EDT)

I think there is a reason to not naming her mega nor naming the Liar Starscream Ramjet. It's the trademark; if Hasbro makes the toy, but they don't get the rights to the name "Mega", they will have to give her other name. Then, we have to wait and see. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 186.9.15.58 (talk • contribs) 00:01, 18 May 2009.

Apparently, she's going to be named in a reference book (the "AllSpark Almanac", was it?) - SanityOrMadness 09:34, 18 May 2009 (EDT)

Derik?

Source for "Slipstream"? —Interrobang 16:54, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

I dunbno. Some guy, I think he said his name was "Anonymous."

(Via the toyline pannel, a redirect instead of a move would be me expressing due caution with an unvetted source.) -Derik 16:59, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, live feed of the BotCon Hasbro panel coming in over at TFW2005 confirms Slipstream. - Chris McFeely 17:08, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Ja, I got it via 4Chan, but there were enough other people postign there that I figured it'd have been nix'd if the report was a prank. Nice of McFeely to confirm, it means we can move it now. -Derik 17:10, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Sexism?

"nagging harpy" "bitch" "tart" Does this wiki really want to endorse these slurs? The articles on Jazz and Blaster don't use racial slurs.

...She is a bitch. That's her entire character. Unless you wish us to use the gender-neutral term of "unpleasant individual". —Interrobang 23:10, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

I think it's a valid complaint. --KilMichaelMcC 23:18, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Yeah it's a valid complaint, but I agree with Interrobang on this one. Oh, we could get rid of every use of the word slag as an insult because it means whore in slang for the UK. We could use much worse language as well to describe her too. If you want opinions from the people who might see it as sexist, we should get the female users to give their voice.--AWT88 23:26, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

We're not using "slag" to refer to female characters as "whores," so your comparison is not apt. Also, one doesn't have to be a woman to dislike seeing the use of sexist slurs. --KilMichaelMcC 23:34, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Please define "sexist slur". We are not using "bitch" as a substitute of "female". We are using it by the definition of "unpleasant female", which is what this character is. Unless you want us to remove all and any indications of gender and sex in Transformers characters. —Interrobang 00:05, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Whilst slightly incredulous that I would need to actually explain this, okay: Calling a woman a bitch is using a sexist slur, whether she's unpleasant or not. The word means female dog and thus applying it to female person is dehumanizing. When it comes to an "unpleasant woman," it is the unpleasantness that is the thing she is to be criticized for, not her gender. --KilMichaelMcC 00:23, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Dehumanizing? Oh no, you wouldn't want the person you're INSULTING to feel bad! But that can't be the problem, as then you turn around and complain that it isn't gender neutral. Exactly what insults are acceptable? I should point out that I'm a jerk, and I therefore find the Sentinel Prime page highly offensive, can you get to work on sanitizing that while you're at it? - Cattleprod 00:31, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

You'll note that I didn't propose "sanitizing" anything. In fact, I didn't even address the specific use of "bitch" in the caption on this page. I was just responding, in a general sense, to the apparent question as to why bitch would be considered a sexist slur. --KilMichaelMcC 00:38, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

You are conflating etymology with definition. It is true that people used the word because it meant "female dog". That is no longer the case and the word's primary meaning is now "unpleasant woman". Nobody is criticizing the fictional character's gender. That is silly and I think most realize this without needing this explained to them. —Interrobang 00:45, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Yes, the word's primary meaning is now a gendered insult, which is why it is often considered to be a sexist slur. At any rate, turning away from generalities and back to this specific article: The use of "bitch" in the main imagine caption could arguably be considered acceptable, in that given the context it can be read as the character herself embracing the term, rather than being insulted with it. However, as the original commenter noted, "bitch" appearing on the same page with "nagging harpy" and "tart" does lend an aura of sexism to the article. The "nagging hapry" bit, at least, should be removed. --KilMichaelMcC 01:02, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

We should totally change Skywarp's page so that it has lots of jokes about him being a negro. Negro totally just means black, right? It's spanish! It's hilarious, because being Black Starscream is his primary character trait. That wacky Skywarp, what a hilarious negro. Hooper_X 01:25, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Am I the only one that doesn't get the "tarts" caption? - Starfield 23:49, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

I think it may be a Red Dwarf quote. There was an idea of having that as a theme running through the clones' pages for some reason. --KilMichaelMcC 23:51, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Right, that's from the Red Dwarf episode "Parallel Universe", where Lister and Rimmer met their female alternates from another universe. The caption was one of the female Rimmer's lines. --Professor Icepick 23:55, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

If it's on a clone page and it's not funny, it's probably from Red Dwarf. --Thylacine 2000 23:56, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

Ironically here, the original question totally misses the context of the word "bitch" as it appears in the caption -- it's being claimed as an affirmative, in the way that insults are often commandeered by the recipients and repurposed as expressions of solidarity. See also: [RACIAL SLUR REDACTED], "dyke", the list goes on and on. -- Repowers 00:52, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

The problem with all of these terms is that the deduce the recipient's eentire identity to a single element-- their gender. "You are a cunt, you are a tart, you are a twat, you are a bitch..." they all translate to- "you are a female, and not in your place."

Reducing ANY character to their gender is cemeaning, it means they have no value beyond their gender, and it's their 100% most importand definign facet, dwarfing any other accomplishments, goals, dreams etc etc etc. Sexism is BAD because it reduces people to simply male or female.

If this was Arcee's article I would not approove of this. Hell, if it was Blackarachnia's article I wouldn't approve of this-- and she's a classic "vamp" negative female stereotype. But this is a character who for months and multiple fiction appearances was known as "Female Starscream." And she is, in-canon, "Starscream's feminine side." She is Starscream + Female. her femaleness is all that distinguishes her from him, like like Liar Starscream's pathological prevarication is all that distinguishes him from Statrscream.

I'm still not a FAN of this... but Slipstream is one of the few characters where you might actually have grounds to justify it. -Derik 01:34, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Anybody who sees Slipstream as nothing more than "female Starscream" wasn't paying attention. She's smart, competent, witty, sarcastic, intelligent, quick witted... -- Repowers 01:49, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

And so is Starscream, some times. Arguably, she's just Starscream MINUS his male ego.

But the original question was-- "is this sexist?" My answer is "normally yes, but female Starscream is a character who IS mantextually defined by her gender."

Mind you, i still think it's icky... Any of the 3 image captions is fine on it's own... but lumped all together they form an unfortuanate pattern--

1. Empowered woman identified a threatening and negative figure
2. Joke about reducing empowered woman to animal level so that she can no longer dominate men
3. Joke that reduces her to a barbie doll.

The last one, especially, is innocent-- the 'X is the new Y' is so common that it's been shorn from its original fashion roots, but when grouped with the other two it becomes part of an unfortunate pattern that locks it back into that context-- in a lot of ways the fashoin-obsessed female 'accusation' places an empowered female into a dis-empowering context-box. She becomes silly, and easily disregarded, and has no authority because hwo can you take someone with 35 pairs of shoes seriously?

It's a totally unintentional pattern, but it's there. And it's icky. And it sends messages we don't want to send.

Ditch the Red Dwarf quote. It's what really sets a negative tone. (I also feel like there's dissonance, where it's difficult to fit to the character somehow, so it sits awkwardly... but that might just be because I haven't seen the Red Dwarf episode in question.)

(Ditch the trivia quote too, we can come up with something better, this is almost random.)

keep the first quote. Bitch or no, it's her claiming power for herself, and it's the only one that really feels like her personality. -Derik 02:28, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

The Red Dwarf quote we have now doesn't really work anyway, so go ahead and remove it, but I personally really liked the Red Dwarf theme across the clone articles. Could we maybe use another quote from Rimmerworld or the parallel dimension episode?? On the other hand, I can't actually see how the Red Dwarf quote is making fun of women at all. To be honest, the quote isn't even directed at her - it's the female Rimmer making fun of the two Listers for being irresponsible. Calling it a "disempowering" quote is actually kind of nonsensical, as the whole point of that episode is that it's a universe where males were disenfranchised. For the last joke; I honestly didn't get any implication about shoes from that. Honestly, I didn't see an implication of anything from it - it seemed like it was commenting on her being a redeco, or something? I don't know. But I wouldn't argue against it being removed. The first caption, while the most fitting, is pretty much the only one that seems to imply anything negative. I would like to say, though, that at least as far as I've recognized in my life, "bitch" is relatively gender neutral, and basically just means someone who is constantly complaining or criticizing (i.e., bitching). I know my friends and me call each other it all the time, and they're very definitely not women.KrytenKoro 05:38, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Bitch as a verb may be gender-neutral, but I'd argue that bitch as an insult isn't. When the word bitch is used to describe males, it has a feminizing or emasculating effect, disturbingly close to some gay slurs I'd rather not go into. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.192.196.242 (talk • contribs).

Oh, one of the Starscreams is in a parallel dimension. Where male Starscreams can get pregnant apparently. This causes a misunderstanding. Hilarity ensues! If you want advice from someone who hasn't seen the show, unless you are a Red Dwarf fanboy, ripping those quotes completely out of context makes no sense and is unfunny. - Starfield 07:44, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Maybe:

Arlene:: In my bunk? On my sheets, using my springs. What could possibly have made you contemplate making love to yourself? Rimmer: Well, why break a habit of a lifetime?

Does this all mean we have to change the second and fourth captions on Laserbeak (G1)? --abates 07:15, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

I'm entirely comfortable killing the Red Dwarf running gag - it never really felt right across the Starscream clones. I got it, but it just didn't really jive. (Also, not to Chat Room this bitch up (oho) but I always figured Slipstream was the embodiment of either Starscream's competency or his opportunism. Guess I should ask Derrick.) Hooper_X 07:22, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! When the hell did this place become a haven for the overly sensitive take offence at anything whiny pc oxegen thieves? It's not sexist, it's a joke, grow the HELL up. It's not a valid concern that this article is promoting sexism, it's you being ridiculous.User:Eire 13.28 May 31 09 (UTC)

Hooper's Law: The only people who piss and moan about "political correctness" are the ones who are mad that it's no longer okay to tell Dumb Polack jokes. Hooper_X 08:43, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Sense it was a wiki dedicated to a franchise meant for KIDS. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.192.196.242 (talk • contribs).

It became one back when everyone started whining over the accents article, sadly.

And nah, I just piss and moan about PCness because most of the time people are whining when there wasn't any maliciousness actually intended. I mean, I am female, and I wasn't offended by the jokes being complained about on this page (especially since she is a bitch and seems to revel in that fact).

Now, when we start seeing people being actually hateful about something, then it's worth getting one's knickers in a knot. --Jeysie 09:01, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Not all members of the offended group have to take offense for something to be offensive. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.192.196.242 (talk • contribs).

No, but getting offended over something being sexist when it's not does get rather silly. --Jeysie 13:31, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Bitch, nagging harpy, and tart are sexist words. 24.192.196.242 14:26, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Which accurately describe how the character acts. I mean, if it was Arcee being called any of those things, you'd have a case for sexism, because that character doesn't act that way.

But if you can suggest gender-neutral words that convey the same sets of personality traits, I'd be behind you in using those instead. --Jeysie 15:41, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

It was hardly "whining" to point out the past-borderline racism and/or intellectual emptiness in the assertion that Blu Mankuma speaks with an "African accent." --Thylacine 2000 09:56, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, because that's so much more racist and intellectually empty than pointing out that Perceptor has a British accent, Ironhide has a Southern accent, etc. Heck, we say in the Jet Twins' article that they speak with a Russian accent; doesn't that thus imply all Russians speak with broken English or something by your logic? --Jeysie 10:42, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

To be precise: it was racist to say "Tigatron has an African accent" because Tigatron's voice is just Blu Mankuma's normal speaking voice, and Blu Mankuma is an American who speaks perfect American English while happening to be black. He sure as hell doesn't sound like Kofi Annan. <--Thy

It's "racist and intellectually empty" because Africa is a damn HUGE place that doesn't even have anything resembling a single accent. It's like talking about a "European accent" to talk about everywhere from Scotland to Turkey, or an "American [continent] accent" to talk about everywhere from Canada to Argentina.

And, yeah, I have a problem with not specifying in the other cases you use as well. There's certainly no such thing as a generic "British accent", since (even without hearing the G1 cartoon) I'm damn sure that there's no conceivable way that Perceptor's voice could sound like it could come from any one of London, Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Cardiff or Belfast (to pick but a few cities) without being able to distinguish a general area. As a result, it's not just lazy, but actually inaccurate. - SanityOrMadness 12:17, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

Actually, there is a "generic British accent", so to speak, in the form of Received Pronunciation, just like the "generic American accent" is close to Midwestern American.

RP is, if anything, the most specific accent of all - being as it is limited to a few thousand actors and other speakers who took extended elocution lessons, since there is no geographic accent that sounds like it. As a result, you very rarely hear an RP accent on the telly any more (whereas at one point it was so essential to get on the Beeb that it was referred to as the "BBC accent", it's now an active detriment as the BBC tries to use people with accents from around the country so as to be not to be seen as London-specific. The accent most associated with London these days is "Estuary English", for the record), and when you do it tends to be someone with an otherwise-distinctive voice like Tom Baker. - SanityOrMadness 13:12, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

'K, next time one of my friends talks about a "Northeastern" or "Southern" accent or somesuch, I'll be sure to get annoyed and call them racist because they couldn't idenfify precisely what state and/or region it was from. *shrug* --Jeysie 13:31, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

But in any case, I actually will agree with "inaccurate". But it's not racist to be inaccurate, it's just... inaccurate to be inaccurate. And saying someone has a certain type of accent isn't racist. Just like saying someone's a bitch/harpy/tart/whatever isn't sexist if they actually act like that, rather than being called that solely because they're female. --Jeysie 12:44, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

I still stand by the fact that, despite being a member the supposedly maligned party here, I find getting uptight about this whole matter to be silly. When someone makes a comment implying that Slipstream acts like a bitch because that's expected of a female counterpart, or something similar, then it's worth getting upset about. --Jeysie 10:42, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

How 'bout "You say "evil" like it's a bad thing!" ?

I would say 1) No, because it's not at all funny; 2) No, because evil=bad by definition, so it's nonsensical as well.KrytenKoro 01:52, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

While real criminals often have some kind of justification, its common for cartoon characters to revel in their villainy. This sounds like something Slipstream would say.

...what the hell are you babbling about? "Reveling in their villainy" would still have "evil != bad" be a contradiction, and Slipstream has never, ever said anything even approaching that, or anything with that kind of attitude.KrytenKoro 02:27, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Edit War: its on. Political Correctness or death! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.192.196.242 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 1 June 2009.

I don't like edit wars very much. I like people who announce their intent to continue an edit war even less. Be better behaved in a week.--Rosicrucian^Talk 03:08, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Would this be an acceptable Red Dwarf quote? It's about all I can find that would fit at all.

Arlene:: In my bunk? On my sheets, using my springs. What could possibly have made you contemplate making love to yourself?

Rimmer: Well, why break a habit of a lifetime?

It would be much clearer that it's not aimed at her, since the implication is that Starscream himself is the one massaging his own ego by creating the clones. Would that be suitably PC and also contextual enough for everyone? Because seeing as the whole bit of the Red Dwarf theme is to be making fun of the character because of their facet...there's not really a whole lot of ways we could use it without delving into misogyny. Though for that matter, I think we'd be hard pressed to find such quotes in Red Dwarf anyway.KrytenKoro 05:53, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I don't think we need more Red Dwarf quotes. If anything, I think we need less.--Rosicrucian^Talk 10:53, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Derrick's Formspring

Yes, Derrick agreed with a poster that she's his sadistic side. Then he agreed with a poster that she exists because Starscream secretly wants to be a girl. He'd joking around, clearly.--Jimsorenson 19:51, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

Why does nobody get that the joke is you're not supposed to know? - Chris McFeely 19:56, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

Probably because it's a shitty joke that was told QUITE poorly :| —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.141.17.200 (talk • contribs).

Mea culpa- I was only going on what he posted to Twitter, not to Formpsring. - Ayellowbirds 20:02, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

No problem. It was an honest mistake. I think Derrick is just frustrated with question about this subject.--Jimsorenson 20:03, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

To be fair, when we started editing, it looked as if Wyatt had given the first and only ever answer to the question, so you can excuse us if we thought it looked legit. -- Semysane 20:04, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

Of course! I wasn't annoyed or frustrated or questioning your judgment. Also, I probably know his tone better than you guys.--Jimsorenson 20:07, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

Haha, sorry, I'm still in argument mode from all the talk about Sideways and whatnot. -- Semysane 20:14, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

It was me who asked that question and he just confirmed that it was a joke. Slipstream does NOT represent sadism, sad but true ;P --Aureole 21:52, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

Guh, and here, for a moment, I had hope Wyatt would quit this downright obnoxious not-joke. I feel cheated. Geewunling 01:25, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

I don't know what's going to happen, I'm not going to follow his account and look out for news. But I guess you ARE cheated x'D --Aureole 15:59, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

I just wish people would stop looking to Derrick's Formspring as if it was Word Of God. It's not. At this point, it's a fan-blog, with a fan putting out his opinions. Derrick was only a PART of what made Animated the great series it was, and now... well, he's not working on TFs.
He's a great guy all around, but people are giving him a bit too much current importance to the franchise. --M Sipher 16:28, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

Color similarity

Is it worth pointing out that her colors are reminiscent of G1 Dreadwind's colors? Bowser the Second 05:27, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Considering that Derrick Wyatt says that her color scheme was "loosely inspired" by Overlord, no. --Khajidha 06:13, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Merged discussion from "Talk:Slipstrike"

I suggest a name change. Official material lists her as "Slipstrike," not "Slipstream." Is there any official material listing her as Slipstream? --Awalsh33 (talk) 23:40, 27 March 2014 (EDT)

Merger

As the Legends comic basically morphs this Slipstream into a G1 Slipstream, should the two articles be fused?

Uh, no? Like... not at all? - Chris McFeely (talk) 12:30, 29 October 2015 (EDT)