Talk:Transformation virus

Was this one of Cryotek's inventions as well? 85.195.119.22 03:46, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

In shitty 3H continuity, I think. Interrobang 04:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Reverting to weaker modes...

Thy just added a comment that the virus reverts people to their weakest altmode, but... I could swear we used to talk about two distinct things happening to the BM characters, both a "devolving gas" and the transformation lock virus. Was that just bullshit? I had kind of assumed it came from somewhere legitimate. --Steve-o 15:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, there's no canonical source that separates the gas from the virus. The gas IS the virus (or at least its delivery system). And the virus doesn't just lock transformation; it completely paralyzes. We saw it happen with Rhinox and Silverbolt, and it's implied in Megatron's insanely quick takeover of the planet. (For that matter, I don't recall it ever being named. In the absence of a canonical source, I think calling it the "transformation lock virus" is too specific. It's like defining Sixshot by his ability to turn into a jet.)

The "devolving" aspect is never explained; it just happens, and that's that. But the simplest and most obvious leap to make is that it was an unintentional side-effect on Transmetal bodies. Being Transmetal meant being immune to the paralysis, but the price was reverting to the body's base design. (And I seem to recall Rattrap twitching and sparking a little bit when we first saw him in the pilot, so it's possible that paralysis would've eventually overcome them anyway.)

I'm tempted to rewrite this article along the lines of what I wrote at the end of Transmetal, but I'd like to see some discussion here first. Maybe there's some canon I'm forgetting.

- Jackpot 16:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

IIRC, that was Devolving Gas which turned them back to their earliest forms. The virus was/is in Cybertron's atmosphere, that's why Botanica contracted it upon landing, she was never gassed. -Derik 22:15, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Again, where is the "Devolving Gas" ever called out as separate from the virus? We only see it twice: Once in Nightscream's flashback (where, IIRC, he only talks about the virus), and once in Rhinox's flashback (which is ALSO the story of the Maxies getting infected). Occam's Razor suggests that they are essentially one and the same. At most, we can say that the gas is a delivery system, but ascribing specific effects to the gas alone is, I think, going too far.

As for Botanica, if we can assume that the virus had permeated all of Cybertron's atmosphere by the time of her arrival, then it's no bigger stretch to assume that the gas itself had done the same. Or perhaps, once initially delivered, the virus can continue to thrive without the gas. However you want to cut it, there's still no need for the gas to take on special powers.

- Jackpot 18:46, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Vestiges of lock virus

The Ultimate Guide says that the four main Maximal characters were affected by some kind of vestige of the virus, which was why they had so much difficulty transforming. Meanwhile, Nightscream, Botanica, and Silverbolt all seem to be reformatted and transform instantaneously. Why is this? This discrepancy merits some mention in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darktruth (talk • contribs){{#if:| {{{2}}}|}}.

Can you quote the relevant passage here on the talk page so we can discuss it? On the surface, that sounds really hard to swallow for me, although I admit it would be nice to have an in-fiction explanation for why some reformatted characters transformed right away. No matter what the explanation is, though, it's probably going to undermine the idea that learning to transform again was important. --Steve-o 05:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Nightscream and Botanica were both affected by the virus until their reformatting.--Rosicrucian^Talk 05:36, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Was Nightscream also affected by the virus? I thought he'd escaped infection by staying underground. The fact that he didn't turn into robot mode could've been happenstance as well as anything. Certainly, the fact that he wasn't paralyzed like Rhinox and Silverbolt is notable.

As for Botanica's lack of paralysis... well, she just went crazy instead, which is entirely different from anyone else's viral symptoms and doesn't seem intentional, given the point of the virus. Maybe she, like the Transmetals, had had her body modified in some unforeseen way while offworld, and that caused the virus to likewise have unique effects.

- Jackpot 19:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

On that subject, maybe Nightscream was not in danger of deactivation because his beast mode was Cybertronian, which could have made him naturally immune to the virus. It's a stretch, but it could work. Darktruth 20:46, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

So you're saying he WAS infected, but scanning the bat-fossil saved him? In that case, there wouldn't have been a need for Primal to reformat him. While I suppose it's possible that Primal did it pointlessly because he was zealous about it, that stretches the credibility of the bat-based-immunity idea, which only exists to justify the likewise unsupported notion that Nightscream was infected at all. - Jackpot 21:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Primal only reformatted Nightscream because he was injured by Vehicons, and would go offline otherwise. If this theory is correct, Nightscream could have hypothetically survived in organic-bat-mode forever.Darktruth 21:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I just rewatched that episode, and you're right. In fact, in his retelling, he seemed to describe himself as a "survivor" of the viral assault, staying topside until the Vehicons numbered in the thousands. Then he fell down a pit (shown in robot mode), "went offline," and woke up as a bat. And at the time of the episode, he couldn't transform anymore; he said that's why he was "spying" on the Maxies, to figure out how they were doing it. So was he part of some small percentage of the population that was naturally immune? Was he infected, but the bat-mode cured him? Was he only partially cured? Did the FRUIT he was eating medicate him? "This'll make you better," he told the Maxies. Also, he seemed unreasonably upset that the tree was destroyed: "How am I s'posed to survive now?!" Good lord, what a crappily-written show.

Oh, and incidentally, Nightscream's instantaneous mastery of the whole "I am transformed!" thing could be chalked up to his observations of the Maxies. That still doesn't account for Silverbolt or Botanica, but I thought it worth mentioning.

- Jackpot 00:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

What Darktruth is taking about is right here:

The transition from early beast modes to quasi-organic configurations (courtesy of the Oracle) was by no means straightforward. The Maximals were still affected by the last vestiges of Megatron's virus, and the new forms were highly sophisticated. Each Maximal had to attain new inner levels of purity and control to switch from beast to robot mode. Intensive training programs followed, mastery coming in slow, painful stages.{{#if:|{{{quote2}}}}}{{#if:Transformers: The Ultimate GuidePage 100|Transformers: The Ultimate Guide{{#if:Page 100|, Page 100|}}|}}

It could bear some mentioning in the article. -- SFH 05:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't seem to say anything at all about Nightscream, Botanica and Silverbolt, unless one reads very heavily into the phrase "early beast modes". I think it is just there to contrast with "quasi-organic configurations". --Steve-o 05:21, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, this is the Ultimate Guide we're talking about here. I'd say its various known errors and retcons make it apocryphal for anything outside of DWG1 continuity. - Jackpot 21:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I suppose that it could be an aftereffect of Oracle-reformatting. The four original characters were exposed to the power of the Oracle, but Nightscream and Botanica were affected by Primal's powers, and Silverbolt was reformatted by Blackarachnia's DNA scanner. So this may be an alternative explanation to the problem. (only Maximals exposed to the full power of the Oracle must relearn transformation). Darktruth 22:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

TLV Continuity Error?

If the gas turned the Maximals back into their earliest, weakest mode, shouldn't Primal, Rattrap, and Cheetor be back in their Dawn of Future's Past vehicle modes? (I know that DOFP came after BM, but it would be nice to have a canon explanation for this) Darktruth 16:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This is one more reason why I don't think the virus/gas was MEANT to revert at all. It appeared to be meant to simply paralyze so the victims would be ready for spark-extraction and reconstruction into Vehicons. The only exceptions were the Transmetals, who were de-Transmetallized and left still mobile (though perhaps temporarily, if they hadn't made it to the Oracle in time). I think this was an unintended side-effect, one that actually saved them because it delayed/negated the paralysis.

And before anyone accuses me of trying to push fanon, I challenge anyone to support any OTHER interpretation (including the one in the article as currently written) with the facts of the show. The show was exceedingly vague in describing the virus, and this theory is the only one I've ever seen that fully fits the facts. - Jackpot 18:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

However, I agree with only some of this theory. Silverbolt was protected from the Metal Hunter because of his Transmetal properties, but his Spark was still extracted on Cybertron. I think that any Transformer who has had a previous version to "fall back" on was protected from the virus. Rhinox, Silverbolt, and Waspinator had no Transmetal protection nor an earlier mode, which could explain this.Darktruth 19:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

However, he wasn't fully Transmetal, and that grey area could've been enough to doom him. What I think actually happened was that the BM writers went by the toy-labels and didn't know about that bit of "Other Visits" trivia. But the theory luckily still holds up in-fiction. Also, if simply having a previous mode could've saved a TF from paralysis, then most of Cybertron's population would've likely still been mobile, making Megatron's quick takeover implausible. - Jackpot 19:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Is it ever even called a "transformation lock virus"? We really don't know what it's supposed to do, or what it did to most of Cybertron's population. They were infected; then some shut down and the rest just disappeared. And as noted herein, there's some discrepancies in what it does to the Beast Machines cast, some of which have to be accounted for by their unique histories. IMO a more generic name for the virus is called for. -- Repowers 21:03, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. As I said above, "In the absence of a canonical source, I think calling it the 'transformation lock virus' is too specific. It's like defining Sixshot by his ability to turn into a jet." The big question is... what to? "Megatron's Virus"? "Beast Machines Virus"? "Virus (BM)"? EDIT: Strike that, reverse it. I'm afraid "Transformation lock virus" DOES have canonical support. In "Mercenary Pursuits," when Rattrap and Cheetor investigate Megatron's lab, Rattrap calls it "a transformation-freezin' virus." And the "counter-virus" that he finds does have the opposite effect, sending his own transformations out of control. - Jackpot 21:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Or maybe... maybe... maybe a big green, fire-snortin' lizard is responsible for this discrepancy. We'll probably never figure out the mysteries of the transformation lock virus. For all we know, Megatron could have had a bit too much liquid energon before he took over Cybertron. For the present, let's just hope that this discussion doesn't mushroom into a debate the size of Blackarachnia's telekinesis. Darktruth 20:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Ultimately, you're right that we'll "never figure out the mysteries," as the purpose of this Wiki is to present information as factually as possible, not to whitewash plot holes. If I'm championing one interpretation, it's not because I want it to be presented as fact. I just want the ambiguities to be addressed, not hidden behind fanon like "Devolving Gas" which actually makes things, IMHO, more complicated.

And even more ultimately, rather than masturbate about it on a Talk page, I should sit down and watch my BM DVDs, read the Ultimate Guide, then rewrite the article with citations and evidence and all that jazz.

- Jackpot 21:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, the Ultimate Guide- thanks for reminding me to check that. (I'm been reading comic scans and watching episodes on YouTube for the Devolving gas article.) -Derik 23:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Silverbolt's continuity error

How come the Mutants (at least in one continuity) are able to survive the effects of the virus and gain a secondary beast form (at the cost of their robot mode) but Silverbolt is paralyzed and unable to transform at all? (I know I'm really nitpicking, but it could bear with some mentioning in the article)Darktruth 14:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The addition of the secondary beast mode - at the cost of the robot mode, mind - wasn't considered a positive effect. The virus that created the Mutants was an early version of the virus used to take over Cybertron. Early enough that the effects hadn't been perfected yet. --Sntint 15:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah. Darktruth 16:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)