Talk:Popular beast alternate modes

If we're going to have this page at all, we're going to have to at least try to respect biological classification: pick levels we deem noteworthy and then stick with them across all groups. "Panther" is not a real animal name. Work in progress... --Thylacine 2000 02:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Should we just eliminate the common names, then? Everyone should still know what we're talking about if we just say Panthera and Gorilla, surely. -Rotty 02:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

But they won't automatically know what we're talking about when they see Acinonyx or Ceratotherium. Though I guess it becomes clear when you list the characters beneath them. --Thylacine 2000 03:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Thy, I have to disagree. We are writing this article for random laypeople that want to know about shared beast forms, not biologists. I think the page becomes significantly less useful if we do anything other than refer to the animals at the level at which random uneducated people will refer to them. None of the organization should be erroneous, of course, but random people will know the difference between at least some big cat species, and we should reflect that by splitting the big cats up. Readers will care whether the altmode is a lion versus a tiger, or perhaps even a polar bear versus some other variety of bear. But most people don't really know or care about different scorpions, for instance, so there is no need to split them up. --Steve-o 04:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Steve, but I think it would serve to identify both ways. If we categorize with general "layman" animal types, we can give a scientific name, perhaps in parentheses, following the Transformer name on each entry into the list. --Sntint 04:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

We don't need to do that after every Transformer's name! I already broke all the vertebrates except "Bats" and "Rhinos" (which need work) down to the genus in parentheses. -Rotty 05:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, then for those for whom it is necessary or pertinent? List the bats and rhinos as bats and rhinos, then specify after each individual's name. For the sake of information. --Sntint 05:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Dinoforce

Are we to include these guys? Does the disguise of the shell count as an "alternate mode" to the robot, even if it's a mode that doesn't resemble that of the inner altmode (unlike Carnivac and Catilla, who unambiguously do fit on this list)? Also, while I'm here, the pterosaur shit is really hard because I honestly don't remember which "Swoop" and "Terranotron" came out in BM or Armada and which ones were naming errors on instruction sheets and whatnot. --Thylacine 2000 19:51, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't consider a Pretender shell to be a "mode" at all. --M Sipher 20:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, considering Pretender shells can have modes of their own, not to mention several pretenders already being listed on the virtue of their inner body's alt-mode.--Rosicrucian 21:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Snapdragon

Anyone feels that though his name has "Dragon", but his altmode looks like kinda dinosaur rather the Dragon. -- TX55 09:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

He's not readily identifiable as any sort of creature other than "upright lizardy guy" so no, not really. It's not like he's blatantly a t. rex or what-have-you. -hx 12:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of which...

I kind of think we should break "Dragons" down to "Traditional Dragons" and "Two-Headed Dragons," since we've got quite a few of those out there (RiD Megs, Hun-Grr, Doublecross, Sinnertwin sorta... I feel like I'm forgetting someone. Anyway, just a thought. I don't think there's any other fantasy monsters that are as common or as identifiable. -hx 12:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Singular and Double Dragons?--Zodberg 13:44, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Multi-headed. Cyb. Scourge has 3 heads. -- Repowers 15:11, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Megatron in Beast Machines-Dragon Category

When he gets angry in beast machines he drops out of the armor and changes to a dragon. Why isn't this in there? It only lists Beast Wars Megatron's Dragon form currently. If there's a good reason I'm missing, please inform me. Mrhthepie

It COULD be because BW Megatron is already listed, much like how Deathsaurus is only listed once instead of twice (his original Japanese toy form and his Botcon exclusive toy). BM Megatron and BW Megatron are the same character. --Detour 21:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Cobrabreast?

Who is Cobrabreast? Is he a Beastformer? A Breastmaster component? -75.168.112.43 00:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Cobrabreast is the Breast Animal/partner of Deathcobra. --TX55 00:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Er- why is he not mentioned on Deathcobras's page? Or anywhere? -Derik 16:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ha ha

I have this incredible urge to add "homo sapiens" under Primates and list 95% of all Transformers ever. --ItsWalky 18:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Transforers don't transform into humans, they transform into upright bipeds with bilateral symetry.

...but seriously, add homo sapiens and put all the Pretenders in. -Derik 18:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of Pretenders, should the Dinoforce be put in under the various dinosaur listings or not, since only their shells are dinosaurs? --Nightshade83 19:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

We discussed Dinoforce above, and seemed to come down on "no." Though I guess we could include an asterisked / italicized "so-and-so had a SHELL of a triceratops while not actually turning into one," and so on. If we're going to include ANY of the Pretenders, then I'll go for it. Note, though, that if we do include Pretender shells, the Dinoforce apatosaur will put us over the three-mold threshold for sauropods! --Thylacine 2000 21:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Horses?

Alright, I got a question for you guys, since I can personally see how it could go either way in an argument. So, we only include guys who have at least three different toys/character models/body types into this page. Now as far as horse go, we got two for certain; Mach Kick and Strada. And then there's a third one, but I'm still debating with myself wether or not he should count; Dropshot (Armada). From what I can tell, he never uses his horse mode in-story, but considering his character model is based off of a toy that does have a horse mode, does that make it count anyways? One would naturally assume he does have a horse mode under his circumstances, but it's still not backed up by officially published fiction... So yes or no, does he count? Ascendron 20:22, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

I had forgotten all about Dropshot and never knew about Strada. They both definitely count. Good catch! I'm tempted to include Battle Unicorn and Magna Stampede too, though probably not at first....--Thylacine 2000 21:59, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, mythical animals are kinda tricky... I mean, Bruticus (RID) is classified as dog, so why wouldn't Unicorns be classified as part of the horse familly tree? I'd personally include them in too. :) Ascendron 22:04, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Bovidae != Bovinae

Bovines are of the subfamily Bovinae. Goats and antelopes are under the subfamily Caprinae. Thus, while goats are bovids they are not bovines. Including Ramulus here seems a bit of a stretch.--Rosicrucian^Talk 14:39, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

I'll change the section title to "Bovids", then. I don't think there's a good reason to exclude them if they already fit into a manageably-sized category that was already there, in this case the family level. We use order-level classification for elephants already. --Thylacine 2000 15:11, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Ohay! Ice Age Wars

So, I just read up on Hearts of Steel and I noticed the part where the Transformers get prehistoric animal alt-modes... Now, I don't actually own the comics, so I'd be pretty hard for me to do it, but could anyone check what the altmodes of the characters are illustrated as having? Some of them might boost some altmode counts into appearing on this page... Or get included in already existing categories... As far as I can tell, none of them have been counted on this page. --Ascendron 23:22, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

...yeah, we forgot all about them. Someone who has the issues or who can point to online scans: help? --Thylacine 2000 13:52, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

I managed to get my hands on some scans of the comic. :) I'll post them asap. Gimme a few minutes. --Ascendron 14:11, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

These are all the pictures of the Transformers with beast modes that I could find (aside from a few, which where just redundant close-ups and whatnot). I don't know my G1 characters very well though, so I'm having trouble figuring out who is who...

[1] [2] (this one has two close-ups, since it's a two-page spread; [3] [4]) [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17]

--Ascendron 14:43, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Hrrrff. Thanks for providing those, but that artwork turns out to be really unhelpful. The beast modes are unclassifiable when they're not completely unrecognizable; what does Bumblebee turn into, a ten-foot-tall pillbug? It also doesn't help that all the robot modes look the same, basically the Dery models covered in teeth. We might be able to nail down Optimus Prime as a mammoth... though now that I think of it, I recall reading somewhere that he's actually supposed to be a sauropod. If anyone can make firm identifications I'm eager to read them, but I have low hopes. Thanks for doing the work on this at any rate; I hope you don't find this discouraging! --Thylacine 2000 14:57, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Not at all! :) If anything, anyone can pillage and crop those images to fill in some of the characters' pages. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that the artist for Hearts of Steel confirmed somewhere that Optimus is a Brachiosaurus (this things with the really long necks from the first Jurassic Park movie) and I'm GUESSING that Bumblebee transforms into an Ankylosaurus (the same thing Bazooka (BWN) and redecos becomes) But yeah, the more I look at it, the more these guys just look like "Generic Prehistoric Monstrosities"... --Ascendron 15:03, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

Sorry, this was me, forgot to log in. Shouldn't Cicadacon/BWII Equivelent guy be listed here as well? Kayb 20:14, 28 May 2010 (EDT)

Venom and Cicadacon/DJ--that's two molds. We need a third distinct cicada mold before the group can be included. --Thylacine 2000 22:44, 28 May 2010 (EDT)

Oh yeah, forgot the three mold thing Kayb 03:40, 29 May 2010 (EDT)