Talk:Alice (ROTF)

Pretender?

Would it be accurate to consider that Alice might be a Pretender? Doesn't seem to transform, just covers herself in a shell.

She's not a Pretender by our definition. She's more like Optimus Primal - a robot that transforms into an organic primate. There's no shell involved at all. Mind, the powers that be may say she's a Pretender anyhow. Until then, she's just a Transformer who transforms into a human. --ItsWalky 01:39, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

How exactly did she transform? The "skin" just seemed to fold back, revealing the robot beneath, with no actual shape-changing.KrytenKoro 09:48, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

I think that, if anything official calls her a 'Pretender', including semi-official things like interviews with people who would know, we could call her one. Otherwise, though, it's just another Sari Sumdac situation. Her conversion from human to robot was different enough than any prior depiction of pretenders (splitting in half or phasing out, like in the Marvel comic, or disappearing in a burst of light or puff of smoke, like in Masterforce) that we'd be taking too big a leap. --Jimsorenson 10:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

I know it probably doesn't mean much, but in this interview Orci says "there is a Pretender". -Mazenoise 10:13, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Well, as far as I'm concerned, that'd be enough. I don't know if that will be the consensus around here. --Jimsorenson 10:23, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

The film's producers do seem to intend this to be their take on the pretender concept.

For what it's worth, it looked to me like she had little 'tiles' of flesh all over her body that folded back. -Derik 10:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

I agree that I think that was their intention. But that makes it a little difficult to define a Pretender in the movieverse. Pretenders typically have a shell and altmode. All Transformers pretend to be something else. What makes a Camaro different than a human? Is a Pretender simply a Transformer with a biological altmode, or a Transformer with an altmode mimicking any other life-from? - Starfield 10:40, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

If i might add, she is alto like a terminator, in that she's a robot covered in a soft organic "alive" shell to fool humans. The only thing different is that she can "retract" it(somehow, the tip of her tongue does not). would that be worth noting?--Sunjumper 11:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Also, not every Pretender has an alt mode - see the Dinoforce. --Jimsorenson 11:12, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

It's possible Alice has an altmode beyond her shell, she just didn't transform.

I agree that Alice's "integrated shell" is unique among Pretenders... but they called her a Pretender in interviews. (Which we seriously need a cite for.) I agree she's a different type of Pretender... but we've had pretenders with pop-open shells, phase-out shells, remote-control shells, disappearing size-reducing shells, animal shells, vehicle shells, combining and transforming shells... this isn't really far out of line for that.

It's complicated by the original Honda/Alive-in-Wonderland plot, but that genuinely seems to have been cut from the theatrical version-- all traces were excused. So we're left with the simple fact-- she can turn into a human-- something none of the other Transformers are able to mimic, and the producers called her a Pretender in interviews.

She's a Pretender. -Derik 11:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Someone who's got the exact wording needs to add a quote to this article of the "I'll pretend to be your girlfriend, you pretend to be my boyfriend" line. That's probably my favorite line from the entire movie, for being such a subtle nod. --KilMichaelMcC 16:05, 27 June 2009 (EDT)

I'd definitely vote for classing her as a Pretender, albeit a Movieverse variation on the concept. After all, the Japanese-verse Masterforce Petenders didn't really have literal "shells" per se, right? They just sort of magically changed from human to robot in a weird lightshow, didn't they?114.78.235.104 09:19, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

I like the way that anonymous poster thinks. Pretenders aren't necessarily the exact same thing in each continuity they appear in, so I would go ahead and say Alice is a Movie-style Pretender.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fallen13 (talk • contribs) 10:44, June 28, 2009 EDT.

Going by this rather loose definition of pretender, I think the crab spy is a pretender. He is mimicking a biological life-form. - Starfield 12:12, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

Save for the fact that one has been stated to be a Pretender by the creators, and one has not.--Rosicrucian^Talk 12:21, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

I don't know what a movieverse pretender is then. - Starfield 12:29, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

At this point, the animatronic angle seems to be the most solid we have. The category is just a formality, like "Triple-Changer." --Rosicrucian^Talk 12:34, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

Trivia

Interesting tidbit of trivia is that in addition to some other effects in the movie, Michael Bay commissioned Digital Domain to work three months on a two second close up of Alice's face transforming. Incidentally, one of the key owners of Digital Domain is...Michael Bay. Way to funnel that budget. Riddlerj 20:28, 7 July 2009 (EDT) http://gizmodo.com/5305809/why-just-2-seconds-of-transformers-2-took-3-months-to-complete