MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Archive24

Proposed mini-project

Anyone else feel like pecking away at The Dark Heart of Sandokan? 'tis the season an' all that. -Derik 10:49, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Being a non-club member, I'd be happy to "peck away" at any club exclusive story if someone sends me a copy of it. :-) --Xaaron 23:53, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

See though, I feel like that'd be wrong somehow.

(Inflicting Dark Heard of Sandokan on a poor, unsuspecting soul nto yet tainted by its touch...) -Derik 23:55, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

I want to start a text-story project in general, if only to get Withered Hope properly written up. Of course, it'd mean someone would have to read Razor's Edge. --ItsWalky 00:22, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

The nice thing about Razor's edge is that it yields relatively few articles, so the person wouldn't have to suffer too badly. -Derik 00:27, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Side note- if you do intend to start an actual project-project, can I suggest officially closing the BW project (lots of eps need cleanup, but they're all now actually documented,) and launcing a movie project in addition to text-stories? A bunch of the first movie stuff should get squared away before the second hits-- toylines, minor characters, the ARG, etc. -Derik 05:44, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Recent Changes/Image box thing

Forgive me if this is a stupid question: Is there any way to get just images as thumbnails in the recent changes section, like the 48 image page on Wikia? Browsing through new images as titles/descriptions is a serious chore. Drmick 16:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Special:Newimages Adding a link to the gallery (on the RecentChanges page,) is on Problem page. (or will be in about a minute.) -Derik 17:36, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

How's that for service? A round of applause for Suki, yo! -Derik 22:54, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Excellent work guys. Very much appreciated. But can I take credit for having the idea/spotting its omission?  :) Drmick 07:28, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Symbol flippy-thiny?

I think there's an actual term for the symbol change used as a scene interstitial in the G1 'toon... anyone know what it is? -Derik 01:07, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

I don't know if it's an official term or not, but the TV Tropes wiki refers to it as a "Wipe". (And mentions the TF swap itself on Idiosyncratic Wipes.) --Jeysie 10:38, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, a "wipe" is a technical term for a scene transition - the flippy would just be a particularly novel one (and not even that odd, "Batman" did it 20 years earlier). Hooper X 09:48, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

Somebody throw together a page. We've already got Commercial bumper; this would stand nicely alongside it. -- Repowers 14:48, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

I was thinking of trying to at least start said article myself, but was wondering how the wiki supports (or doesn't support) animated gifs. (I also was wondering how many series used the wipe. I know G1, G2, and RiD did... any others?) --Jeysie 07:00, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Headmasters, Victory, and CR (different from RID's). --Thylacine 2000 08:46, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Thankee! OK, I started the page with information on the series I'm personally familiar with. Have a blast. If someone wants to tackle the G1 example image before I get to it, feel free. --Jeysie 01:20, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Multi-collumn list

A month or so ago, someone (Siph IIRC) asked about multi-column lists, (like we use for episodes,) and whether we could make them work in internet explorer.I've since looked into it, and basically the answer is "No." The longer answer is "Yes, but we don't want to."Multi-column lists in Safari and Firefox work like this;

1	4
2	5
3	6

They go down. But because Microsoft has stubbornly refused to implement the CSS3 tags everyone else has (officially browsers are now supporting 2.1, but everyone else has gone froward and added a variety of CSS3 tags, and they've have column-count since IE 7 was released) the onnly way to do multi-collmun layouts in IE is with floats, which makes the order go all wonky;

1	2
3	4
5	6

We could alter the

template so that it was floated in both Firefox AND IE-- but horizontal lists like that are a terrible way to treat episode lists (the primary use of the template,) and any other attempted solution (like javascript) likewise creates more problems than it solves.Basically, that's my findings unless someone else knows a workaround Iw asn't able to find.  :( -Derik 07:16, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

"Toy reviews"

I've been seeing a lot of toy sections edited down with a note about being "too toy reviewy", but that seems like a pretty vague criticism. Do we have spelled out anywhere just what toy sections should say? If not, we should try and hash out some guidelines. -- Repowers 14:51, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

Crib it from "Not a Chatroom." (and if it lacks a justifaction, come up with a philosiphy that addresses both points, won't you?) -Derik 07:50, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Some of it is my fault. When I started on this wiki, the sheer majority of toy sections tended to be one or two sentences saying something like "Carblast transforms into a blue car." So, somtimes I went to the other extreme of padding out toy sections with more information than is necessary. --FFN 09:32, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Giving a rundown of the toy's articulation is a big one. Since late G2, a decentish range of articulation in "normal" line figs is practically as expected as, well, being able to transform. And it can be largely expected that anything beforehand... ain't gonna have much at all. But yeah. It's largely a matter of padding. --M Sipher 10:00, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Fonts

I think we've discussed this just a tad before, but any thoughts on allowing .ttf uploads? I've got several fonts that are 100% cannonical and I think they'd enhance the Cybertronix and Cybertronian languages pages. --Jimsorenson 20:21, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

I'd be for it. -Derik 20:36, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

Sounds good to me. --Professor Icepick 21:08, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

To clarify- it sounds good so long as it's accompanied by a policy of blah-blah-blah. (Quality assurance y'know.) -Derik 07:47, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

It's done! You should be able to upload ttf files now. The only thing I really have to weigh in is if anyone ever uploads Neale's font, I demand that anyone downloading it be forced to sign a legal document saying they won't ever use that friggin' Autobot symbol. --Suki Brits 19:55, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

I fixed that darn sigil years ago... - TFVanguard 10:59, 21 November 2008 (EST)

Thankfully, Neale's font would not meet our "100% canonical" requirement. Jim's on the other hand have actually been used in Transformers media such as the Movie ARG.--Rosicrucian^Talk 20:01, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

Actually, they would. Many of the Transformers fonts I've made have been used later in some official capacity or another, such as the Wreckers comic, the Dreamwave's comics, 3-D card game, video game materials, and so on. (I've long since lost track of EVERY use, they're literally everywhere). Of course, the main reason that they're used is that they're free, and, accordingly, I've certainly got no objection to them being available here. A note about where they appeared officially should be sufficient, nae? - TFVanguard 10:59, 21 November 2008 (EST)

*mumbles quietly about Neale's icon font and Wreckers #1* -Derik 05:48, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Can there maybe also be a fonts page, where they're all collected and compared in one place? I don't mean every font ever available, just "this is the G1 font, this is G2, this is Beast Wars..." etc. -- Magnus Maximus 19:42, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

If you can find .tff files for the fonts that were used by Hasbro or any licence holders, sure. This only applies to fonts used in official capacity; fan-made recreations and approximations don't count. --FortMax 19:55, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

So the fonts on the pages mentioned above are actually official? I know the Cybertronian languages page says those ones were retconned, but I cant see anything stated to that effect on the Cybertronix page. I thought the gist of what was said in this section was that they had to be strictly canonical, but not necessarily official. -- Magnus Maximus 20:13, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

Javascript fun!

I've been poking at Javascript for... ages, but I've finally started putting it together in a more systematic (read:useful to others) way. Check it out here.Currently offered: Footnote helpers, like reading them with a mouseover! -Derik 09:07, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

DVD and VHS (and future media) releases

Is there any reason why we don't have a page (or pages) detailing all the video releases of Transformers? After all, we do have articles on the books? Drmick 12:20, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Typically these are detailed on the pages of the media they collect. Thus the animated and live action movies have theirs on their respective pages, G1 has it on the series page, etc.--Rosicrucian^Talk 12:37, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

OK. Sorta meant each set getting their own description of bonus features, mistakes, background info, artwork etc. It would be a bit of work, and probably really boring work, but worth a go? Drmick 13:27, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Oh that's all well and good, but like I said we haven't been giving them their own pages. The individual articles of the series/movies are not so large that we can't just detail the releases there, even at the level of detail you suggest.--Rosicrucian^Talk 14:40, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

McDonald'S Tfs

Should we make an article which lists all of them and has a bit of info on them? Instead of just listing them on the normal toy pages. Just an idea I just had. Dead Metal 06:47, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Probably better for a general fast food freebies article, since Burger King and other outlets did similar stuff. --FFN 09:22, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Yea that would be better, I'll start researching and see what I can put together.Dead Metal 04:51, 4 October 2008 (EDT) I just found out, we already have one!Dead Metal 14:59, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Character page main images

Carrying this over from Rewind's talk page, I just want to voice a general concern that we've become too heavily reliant upon MTMTE, Transformers Universe, and box art for profiles. They're unavoidable in some cases, but very often, viable alternatives exist. Why, for example, are we using box art for Roadhandler instead of, say, that huge opening splash page from Marvel #55? Why does Rewind get a bland, generic model sheet illustration instead of a cartoon screencap that actually shows the character's colors more accurately, and shows him in his best-known media appearance, and shows some facet of his personality? Is it because it crops him off at the knees? Are Rewind's shins really that important?I realize we strive for continuity-neutral intros, but it's silly to pretend that there are not definitive media appearances for many characters. Furthermore, as a matter of copyrights and fair use, we should move toward a diversity of image sources whenever possible... which means MTMTE and TFU should be absolute last resorts. -- Repowers 14:51, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm with Rob. And while our intros are suppsoed ot be continuity-neutral, there's no such prescription on the mainpic-- it shouldn't be misleading... but it can be from a highly idiosyncratic source. (Which is why it always pissed me off the number of users who went apeshit at the suggestion we use this image of Movie Prime because "it wasn't CGI!" All the CGI pics suck!) -Derik 22:15, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

I really really like to avoid comic book panels and screencaps for character images. I'd much rather stand-alone art of any kind, just a general rule. (That general rule is WHY we're profile-image heavy with our character images.) --ItsWalky 22:30, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Mostly because in-action images don't tend to show the characters off very well though, yes? -Derik 22:33, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

That's part of it. I defy you to find me a screencap of a character from a G1 episode that looks good and shows off the entire body. I defy you to find me a scan of a full-body character from a Marvel Comic that isn't covered in text or isn't just Jose Delbo copying the model sheet again. The exceptions to this rule are probably already being used. --ItsWalky 22:42, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

The other part is that it just looks BETTER to have a stand-alone piece of art up at the top. It looks much prettier, cleaner, what have you. If I see a screencap, the first thing I'm going to think is "shitty Wikipedia article." --ItsWalky 22:42, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm with Walky. There's so much opportunity for screencaps and comic panels in the "Fiction" section, I prefer to see a full-body shot (preferably with a vehicle mode) at the top. It doesn't NEED to be a profile pic or box-art, just so long as it gives a very good view of the character. If you do use a screencap or comic panel because it's just way better, I recommend cutting the background out so it at least blends in with the profile drawings and boxart. Not to toot my own horn, but the Galvy II main pic that Walky linked to is probably the best example. - Jackpot 03:23, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

I agree with Jackpot and Walky. Full-body images are the best thing for a main pic. If the character is important enough, we'll probably see some official image that's not MTMTE or tech-spec (Galvatron, Ironhide, Devastator). If we're talking about minor characters, though, they might only HAVE one or two good non-profile pic images. Using those for the main pic would mean they couldn't be used for the Fiction text, making it look more like a big block of text. --Xaaron 08:55, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with Rob on this. Not only does it lead to more diversification and better images, but it's less likely that we'll step on someone's toes legally. If a screen cap / comic frame is a good depiction of a character and is fairly unambiguous, we should sometimes use it.--Jimsorenson 22:35, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

So long as the matter is open for debate, I, too, advocate the thought of being allowed to use as main pics screencaps/comic panels/etc. that happen to show off a character both visually and doing something representative of their personality, as opposed to always boring generic "pose" artwork.

If the style of our articles many times represent the character's personality in some way, why shouldn't their main pic do so as well? And that usually can't be accomplished with one of the stock profile pics. --Jeysie 22:42, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Facebook

i made a just for fun Swindle group in Facebook , is it OK if use info from your site ( which is amazing by the way ) , with full Royalties given :) ?Lazdsl 08:28, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

TFWiki.net's content is licensed under GFDL-- anyone can re-use or re-purpose our content-- but any work they create based on it must likewise be available for anyone to use.

(In other words: Sure! Go for it!) -Derik 08:57, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Thanx Derik , You got the touch! Lazdsl 09:17, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Thank Merytneith, ATT's resident legal expert. She explained how licensed use, fair use and copyright work (a brain bending concept at times) clearly enough that I got it, and now I keep track of rights-to-use and basis-for-use as a second nature. (Came in handy when reviewing Wikia's Terms of Use when we left 'em too!) -Derik 09:29, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Sure comes in handy , invite her to join us here ;)Lazdsl 09:41, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Facebook Swindle

May I post the links of my Swindle group & page in here ?I know you love Facebook !Lazdsl 11:42, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

No, you may not spam your site. --ItsWalky 11:55, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Ok i understand , I just wanted to increase the size of my group !Lazdsl 13:37, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

Top of first page of a comic is called...?

What do you call this thing? The, um... bizaro version of the metadata at the bottom of the first page of a comic (which I have always called the "Indica," even though that is not right.) This section seems to be mostly replaced by recap pages these days. -Derik 22:31, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

The copyright/etc info is called the "indicia". You got close :p

I just call the bit at the top the "blurb", same as the paragraph on the back/first page (delete as appropriate) of prose books. Whether there's a formal name or not, I'm not sure. - SanityOrMadness 22:44, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Episode/comic "availability"

(Moving from previous location)
Something I've been thinking... our episode pages are missing something. Namely... where you can get those episodes on "home video". With all the DVD releases out there, home video (for you old-tech lovers)... even the streaming MonkeybarTV condensed "webisodes". With links to the pages FOR those releases on this wiki and, say, Amazon.com or Best Buy (or to Monkeybar, withthe webisodes). Our book pages have an automatic ISBN search function to find places to buy them. I don't see why we can't extend a semi-similar thing for cartoon episodes. Plus, external linking should help our google rank, yes?
I feel kinda the same way about any given comic issue... if it's been collected in a trade, we should list on that issue's page what trade(s) you can find it in. Which should have their own pages, frankly. --M Sipher 20:19, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Maybe a um... I'm not sure what the right label would be... Media Availability? Products? But its own section at the bottom where we can just put purchase links to any applicable DVD releases or Trade releases. (Heck, if we want another source of income for the wiki, we could even make an Amazon affiliate account and link through that...) --Jeysie 21:52, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

I've been wanting to take a whack at a more universal "Reprinted in/as" format for a good while now... can I suggest movign this discussion tot he Community Portal so that it can be discussed by everyone? (I like the affiliate account idea, but I'm not sure where it puts us, legally- or even if we want to take that step now if we can...) -Derik 22:27, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

I think we'd need to reform our approach to Trades then-- right now we barely touch on them- (considering them unimportant) and when we do touch on them- there's really no... standard format for doing so. Is it "about" the new covert art? The Extras? Do we include ISBN's or EAN's? What about, like the Dreamwave edition of Prime Directive vs. the Titan edition of it vs. the IDW re-issue of it, vs the hardcover versions of... do we treat these as seperate things? (If we're focused on extras and cover art, we would, because they often come bundled with different extras.) The same question applies to DVD releases.(I think we should just start with two clearinghouse page that list every TF DVD ever, and every TF TPB ever-- and then see what sort of organizational system fits. The dataset is too complex to discuss in the abstract, we'd be better off just doing and seeing what emerges.) -Derik 22:44, 5 October 2008 (EDT)If we're going to go "all out" we should go all out and list VHS, Beta, and any other formats they were available on as well IMO. Starting by compiling a huge list of everything that can then be categorized and/or whittled down does sound like a good idea though. MrBlud 01:02, 6 October 2008 (EDT)

Question: Are we talking informal list to work from for the page, or a real page? --Jeysie 19:17, 7 October 2008 (EDT)