Talk:Technorganic
That two-page spread from TFU #1 should TOTALLY go in the "Technorganic Cybertron" section. That's some fucking GORGEOUS art there. --M Sipher 06:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
In my edit I removed a statement that the technorganic healing abilities function better/faster in robot mode than in beast mode. Walky and I have no recollection of this. I'm inclined to think that, if they worked better in one mode than the other, it would have been the beast mode. Does anyone know whether this robot-healing thing was ever established someplace? It should be cited if it's put back in. --Steve-o 16:54, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
- My rough notes from watching through BM a couple years ago include the following:
- BM Maximnals cannot use CR chambers. However-- BM's robot modes DO exert biologicly-enhanced nanosurgical capabilities, allowing them to quickheal, like Nightscream did his wing. They heal faster in ROBOT MODE
- It's from... uh... revelations? (My next note in order is the Diagnostic Drone recognizing Tankor's old personality.)
- note that Nightscream has th ability to quickheal even FASTER than the other Maximals when he's doing his vampire thing-- so I speculate their self-repair abilities are linked to their robot modes being at a higher 'energy level'. -Derik 23:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Technorganic transforming
Technorganic transforming's not entirely a shapeshifting-style transformation. Watch Primal's transformation in the premiere episode, and you can see how the "energy" merely changes the shape of his limbs. After that, recessed panels slide out. I belive this should go in the article as well. Darktruth 15:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
New section on usage errors
I sure hope folks like the new section what I wrote. --PacifistPrime
Where is this stuff coming from??
This article's got some rather oddly-phrased conclusions in it, taking single examples from the cartoon and unsupportably stating that they are illustrations of larger, well-known principles:
- Rather the spark appears simply to be diffused throughout the body and coalesces in the center of the chest or floats just outside of it when made to appear.
- Close contact and ingestion of anything purely organic will tilt their minds toward their primitive, "organic" side.
- their greatest weakness lies in the perfect but fragile balance between the two opposing sides of their nature.
I'd purge it all myself, but I wanna make sure there's not some outside source that's stating all this more clearly than the events of the cartoon did. Also, am I the only one who finds this article way too long and rambling in its current state? -- Repowers 15:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- "Also, am I the only one who finds this article way too long and rambling in its current state?" You aren't. And the sections PacifistPrime keep adding aren't helping. This article needs an overhaul. —Interrobang 03:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- Primal said ingesting the purely organic fruit had devolved the Maximals and made their animal sides take over. "Close contact" seems to be an extrapolation / made-upism. --Thylacine 2000 03:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- This is the tree that shattered into pixels when Cheetor hit it with a sword. Whatever it was, it's not a common representative of "organic". -- Repowers 03:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Massive purge
Hi guys. Look, I really don't want to get in a big argument here, as I have neither the time nor inclination, but I have to say I'm pretty miffed at the total slash & burn that's been done to the new sections I created. I know this is a wiki that anyone is free to edit, but given that you were clearly aware that I was pretty much the sole creator of the material from "Usage Problems", it would've been polite to at least discuss it a bit more first, don't you think?
Although I totally agree there was a great need for story links and concrete examples (and I appreciate you chaps adding them) and the prexisting material certainly needed tweaking, I really don't see that it was neccessary to pretty much annihilate all the new material that was already there...! The complaint about "speculation" is noted, but a] it was all clearly phrased as such, and b] there are plenty of instances on this wiki of logic-driven speculation which openly attempts to address canon ambiguities by suggestion theoretical explanations.
After all, it is a pretty big Question Mark/Elephant in The Room for the whole Beast Era, don't you think? If the Beast Wars-era characters were already genuinely organic, then what's the point of becoming Technorganics in Beast Machines? On that basis alone I think the "Cyborgs or DNA Data" section is worthy of inclusion, as it is clearly an interrogative extrapolation which is not asserting any canonicity. The simple fact that there is such uncertainty merits such subsections, surely?
And at any rate, regardless of the organic/inorganic uncertainty, it is very clear from Beast Machines that anything pior to BM is definitely not technorganic as per the BM definition, and thus the term's use in reference texts when applied to Beast Wars characters is erroneous.
I really believe these things bear more in-depth treatment in the article, regardless of whether they're my original words or not.
As it stands now, I think the article is worse off, I really do. I think it is worthwhile having some material on the article that discusses the nature of pre-BM beast modes, rather than just a stack of piecemeal examples that don't really lead to anything. (Also, completely removing the reference to the uncertain status of Jungle Planet inhabitents seems a questionable deletion.)
Perhaps a compromise would be in order. Might I suggest a negotiated, more concise (if neccessary) version of the previous text, enhanced by integrating your excellent examples & story links? Alternatively, what about creating a separate, linked article about "Beast Modes"...?
PacifistPrimePP 04:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- A lot of what I removed was simply overlong wordiness -- using 100 words to say could be summed up in 10. When my eyes glaze up and start to skip over entire paragraphs, it's my personal litmus test for something that needs heavy re-writing -- usually to have its central idea plucked out and everything else discarded.
- Furthermore, some of it was flat-out incorrect (ie: the BW guys weren't organic, when there's all kinds of evidence that they were), and then more still was unfounded fan theorizing (cyborgs, etc.) only necessary because of that position.
- Likewise for the position that the BM use of the term is the right one, and all subsequent uses are wrong -- the guidebooks are canon, they said what they said, and we're not really supposed to be picking and chosing our canon here. They use the term differently than the show did; the article as it stands notes that difference, and moves on. The "piecemeal" results may not be very rational or aesthetically pleasing, but the wiki is not the place for Grand Unified Fan Theories trying to tie it all together.
- I don't think I cut out any content from the article that's directly supported by the canon, and everything that's in there now is supported by concrete examples. Sometimes extrapolation and speculation are reasonable --
see Snarler's origin for a good example, IMO; there's no conjecture, just a listing of three clear, obvious possibilities that don't require making anything up.(Crap, guess I never changed that page per the Talk page discussion. Oops.) But there are limits.
- The article is already very long as is (as noted above, I'm not alone in thinking so.) The entire "Usage" section could be nuked and I wouldn't be too bothered, as it's tangential at best to the actual Beast Machines-centered content of the page. -- Repowers 06:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- For that matter, Jungle Planet inhabitants are sculpted as being wholly mechanical, and intentionally so.--RosicrucianTalk 06:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure why we need to note the Jungle Planet guys. They're irrelevant to the topic and their only (tangential) connection is that they take the form of animals. —Interrobang 06:35, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'm completely in agreement with Repowers. I looked at the old article, and it was a long, unreadable, rambling mess with lots of fanon. The cropping done is for the better. And I also agree that the Jungle Planet guys are completely irellevant to the matter, and bringing them up at all only serves to pointlessly muddy the waters based on nothing canon. --M Sipher 16:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Why did Primal's team need to go through the Beast Wars just to acquire beast modes?
In the article the question was raised why did Primal's team need to go through the Beast Wars just to acquire beast modes? My thought for the answer: they didn't. When they discovered the Oracle in the first episode it said "At long last, the receptive Spark.". The idea could be that Primal need to go through temporarily going to the matrix and carrying Prime's spark to become able to be receptive to the will of the Matrix which he pass on to the others near the end.
