Talk:Aligned continuity family

The name

This page needed to be called something, and none of the suggested options seemed to have more or less community support in previous discussion, so I went with what I liked best. For the record, here are the choices I've seen:

• New Aligned (or just Aligned)

Taken from Hasbro commentary: [1] [2]

• Modern

Taken from Hasbro commentary: [3] [4]

• War for Cybertron/Exodus

Taken from Hasbro commentary: [5]

• Prime

Based on the current most prominent franchise

• Bible

Based on the monumental production bible and the fact that the WfC novel is named "Exodus"

For my money, I prefer the first two, and I went with "New Aligned" over "Modern" because it's more unique and descriptive, plus it's less prone to dating. "War for Cybertron/Exodus" is clunky, and I vehemently dislike "Prime" because of all the confusion and debates we've caused ourselves by having both a "G1" franchise and a "G1" continuity family. "Bible" strikes me as kind of left-field and too laden with real-world baggage.

I don't mean to impose my opinion; if the community prefers a different name, that's cool. And of course, if Hasbro ever declares an official name, this whole question is moot. But in the meantime... gotta have something.

- Jackpot 21:01, 25 February 2011 (EST)

I myself have been using the term "Modern Aligned Continuity" to refer to this canon, combining both of the terms that Hasbro has used. I'd say that both terms are able to encompass WFC, Exodus, and Prime without favoring one over the other. But since there are two terms, and since neither seems to take precedence over the other, I just use both at once. Ergo, the "Modern Aligned Continuity". --Sabrblade 15:15, 26 February 2011 (EST)

It's not always going to be "new," so lacking an official term, I'd omit that part of it.--Rosicrucian^Talk 15:44, 26 February 2011 (EST)

Yeah, won't always be new, I'd vote "Modern Aligned" or just "Aligned". --ZacWilliam (not logged in)

"Modern" isn't all that popular. - Starfield 16:03, 26 February 2011 (EST)

I would also agree to just call it the aligned continuity. I take this to mean we are moving "Optimus Prime (Prime)" to "Optimus Prime (WFC)"? Alientraveller 18:23, 26 February 2011 (EST)

A valid question, but let's save that for its own discussion, maybe over on Talk:Transformers: War for Cybertron (franchise). - Jackpot 13:05, 27 February 2011 (EST)

Everyone who has spoken up agrees that "Aligned" is good, even if we differ in our preference of modifiers. So I'm cool with the move to just "Aligned". If there are no further objections, I suggest we start propagating the name in places like continuity-notes, i.e., Skyquake is a Decepticon from the Prime portion of the Aligned continuity family. Sound good? - Jackpot 12:16, 28 February 2011 (EST)

New idea

This idea has crossed my mind recently. The core of this new continuity is the Binder of Revelation, which chronicles the entire history of this continuity's universe. And this is supposed to be the final major continuity of the franchise. So basically, the Binder of Revelation telling the last era of the TF franchise's life. To me, this seems sort of like a parallel to the Book of Revelation tells of the last era of real life. It's further reinforced by the guys at Hasbro calling their "Book" the "Binder of Revelation". So what I'm getting at is, perhaps this continuity (family) can be referred to as the franchise's own sort of "Revelation". Maybe we could apply the term "Revelation", or even "the Revelation" as this new continuity (family)'s name. It looks a bit more formal than simply "Aligned continuity family". So, the major eras would go something like: "Generation 1 --> Generation 2 --> the Beast Era --> Robots in Disguise --> the Unicron Trilogy --> the Live-action film series and Animated --> the Revelation." Thoughts? --Sabrblade 01:25, 4 February 2012 (EST)

"Superseding" and so forth

I think that that section could use a closing sentence, but since my first draft has been deleted twice, how about this rephrasing?

It is unclear whether Hasbro intends the New Aligned fiction to merely sit askew from the rest of the multiverse, or rather to supersede it somehow. Hasbro has not used the term "canon" in its statements, so this wiki assumes the former in accordance with our "everything is canon" policy.

Basically, I think it's important for the reader to know that there are a couple of ways to interpret the information we've gotten, but we're running with one for practicality's sake.

- Jackpot 12:58, 27 February 2011 (EST)

It hasn't really superseded anything, has it? There's ongoing fiction for G1 and Movieverse being produced. --abates 13:47, 27 February 2011 (EST)

Good point. In fact, that probably merits mentioning in the article. How about....

Where, exactly, all of this leaves the New Aligned fiction in relation to the rest of the multiverse is unclear. Other contemporary fiction has continued to tell stories set in older universes, so it seems at least that New Aligned material is not meant to supersede the continuities from which it draws.

- Jackpot 14:39, 27 February 2011 (EST)

Toy Bios?

Obviously we haven't seen the backs of the new Prime toys yet, but were there any bios on the backs of WfC Prime or Bumblebee toys? They'd only present micro-continuities, if anything, but they'd be worth mentioning. Skyshock Thunderblast 14:06, 27 February 2011 (EST)

They had the stats of their movie incarnations, I do remember that much. Antimatter 14:21, 27 February 2011 (EST)

Here's "Cybertronian" Optimus's bio. I don't know enough about WfC to tell how it jibes with Exodus and the games. - Jackpot 14:48, 27 February 2011 (EST)

Ah, I've found the rest:

Cybertronian Megatron

Cybetronian Soundwave

Cybertronian Bumblebee

Cliffjumper

Bumblebee's is the most interesting, since it refers to his past as a "chatterbox" and his present as a "silent warrior." You could take that to be a bridge between WfC and Prime, or you could take it as a contradiction because he's not actually silent in the cartoon. Megatron's is notable because it hints at his willingness to do stuff like infuse himself with Dark Energon, though it uses much more nonspecific terms. Soundwave and Cliffjumper's bios are both fairly generic.

Something in all that might be worth adding to the article, but I'm not exactly sure what yet.

- Jackpot 13:30, 28 February 2011 (EST)

All current non-Movie toys part of this continuity?

Bigger Question: In the Q and As Hasbro basically said that they consider all their current toys that arent specifically Movie to be part of the NA continuity. No we ignore Hasbros stated continuity for RtS Seaspray. I assume we ignore this statement too? We should probably at least mention it somewhere.--76.28.76.206 14:35, 27 February 2011 (EST)

Did they say that? I was wondering about that in general because the mishmash nature of the new line definitely reflects the NA spirit. - Jackpot 14:48, 27 February 2011 (EST)

IIRC, Yes. In answer to this Question from Nov.

"ActionFigs.com Lately, the Revenge of the Fallen line figures seem to have been moving away from the movie aesthetic, especially since the start of "Hunt for the Decepticons". Brimstone and Hubcap, Terradive and Tomahawk, Seaspray - even Human Alliance Jazz to some degree - those are all movie-line figures that feel in many ways more traditional in their styling. Was that shift away from some of the movie universe's more outlandish design stylings intentional with the latest toys, and what prompted that shift?"

Unfortunately ActionFigs seems to have taken down their answers. It was probably the most important answer we got that time too. :( The Allspark thread about that Qand A still talks about the answer. Anyone archive it?--76.28.76.206 15:16, 27 February 2011 (EST)

There's a note on Sea Spray's page that preserves a tiny bit of Hasbro's answer: something about the toys mentioned in the question "do not exist in the movie world". I don't recall Hasbro, in that answer, outrightly stating that they were part of the aligned continuity, however. --Crockalley 08:22, 28 February 2011 (EST)

Oh, here we are: "Brimstone, Hubcap, Terradive, Tomahawk and Seaspray do not exist in the movie world, so that would explain why they do not fit the aesthetic that was established in the first two movies. Our goal continues to be to design realistic vehicles that could exist in today's world that of course convert into cool looking figures, but at the same time are great toys to be played with. As such, some of the 'design' aesthetics might change to fit character designs into the vehicle designs, thus the reason for the style change."

From here. So, no mention of the aligned continuity. --Crockalley 08:27, 28 February 2011 (EST)

I'm trying to remember the Discussion on Allspark, I think maybe the impression was given by a combination of that answer and this one to us in the same Q&A:

"Ultimately, Power Core Combiners are meant to exist in the modern world continuity. They are based on realistic vehicles, jets, helicopters, etc. all of which could exist today. So while they are not meant to be part of the "movie" universe, they are meant to exist with the modern world which we have seen come to life in the live-action films."

I cant remember if there was more to it but basically in the same Q&A Hasbro said 1) Questionable RTS toys are set not in Movie continutiy but in the "modern world" and 2) that PCCs were part of the "modern world continuity". I think you can see how this can pre read that both are part of NA continuity. I'll look around and see if there's anything else that suggests the same.--ZacWilliam 08:46, 28 February 2011 (EST)

Classified novels = Moviesverse?

The Amazon.com pre-order page has put up an image of the first Classified novel cover, and it clearly shows Movie Bumblebee and ROTF Gears on the cover. I guess that would mean it refers to the Movie Continuity instead of the Aligned Continuity? --Sabrblade 11:59, 27 July 2011 (EDT)

Timeline

With the 13 and Unicron appearing in the series and the impending release of Exiles, does anyone else think that by the end of the week we'll have enough information to start a rudimentary timeline page for the Aligned continuity? I guess it would have to be like the Movieverse timeline page in noting that there are some continuity conflicts but I think Exodus + Exiles + WfC + the one-shot comic + the show has enough by now that it would be plausible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.51.184.13 (talk • contribs){{#if:| {{{2}}}|}}.

Rescue Bots

Why is RB considered part of the aligned continuty, when it seems to take place in Different universe not related to the aligned continuty? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eagc7 (talk • contribs){{#if:| {{{2}}}|}}.

Link to the discussion. Tom Servo the Great 20:01, 22 December 2011 (EST)

Aligned isn't a continuity, it's a continuity family. Like the Generation 1 continuity family, there are several continuities which we group together within it. --abates 20:18, 22 December 2011 (EST)

Major updates needed

We've still go the Prime game listed as "to be released in October 2012" on the page, and it's 9 months later that that now. Can anyone add to the section to explain how well it does or doesn't ties in to the overall continuity? I never got the game, so I don't thing my second- or third-hand knowledge is up to snuff. --King Starscream 16:32, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

This explains how it doesn't fit. --Sabrblade 20:55, 22 July 2013 (EDT)

Bot Shots and Kre-O

Both of these look like they should count as Aligned:

• Hasbro said that the bulk of new Transformers properties would be Aligned
• Both follow the "combining previous franchises' portrayals" pattern that Aligned is based around
• Bot Shots introduced the Predacon faction (and the Beast Hunters concept) at the same time as Prime
• The extreme difference in visual style is nothing new - take anything listed as Super deformed, for instance
• As for the characters who look significantly different from their Aligned counterparts (e.g. Sentinel Prime (Kre-O) and Sentinel Zeta Prime) - well, that's already happened within Aligned: Hot Shot (Prime) and Arcee (WFC), for example, are unrecognisable in their Prime forms compared to their WFC forms

To me, it looks like Hasbro wanted to continue what they were doing in Prime in other forms of toys, and didn't bother saying "these are Aligned" because it's only us that care about things like continuity families. The toys weren't made to be scrutinised like this, and continuity families are such a vaguely-defined concept in the first place, as we discovered with the movie and IDW debates. I'd say that, unless Hasbro specifically say that Bot Shots and/or Kre-O are their own families, they could easily be shoved into Aligned. --flicky1991 03:44, 23 July 2013 (EDT)

So you're just going to ignore all the blatant G1 & movie design cues in Kre-O and Bot Shots, then. --M Sipher 05:42, 23 July 2013 (EDT)

And even ignoring designs, Kre-O has a bunch of fiction and bios establishing these aren't brick-built representations of regular fictional Transformers, they're toys of characters who are actually built of bricks in-universe, which Aligned guys plainly aren't.

Bot Shots is admittedly less clear cut, but the central premise of 'Autobots and Decepticons war on Cybertron in formal arena battles' isn't one that's really compatible with the Aligned story. In addition to the 'continuity amalgam' trait of Aligned, another important part of it is somehow fitting into the big ol' Aligned timeline, even loosely, per the 'squint test', but there isn't really a place for Bot Shots anywhere. Jalaguy 07:25, 23 July 2013 (EDT)

M Sipher, I wasn't ignoring them - that's the second bullet point. Jalaguy, I understand your points, especially the Kre-O ones. The Bot Shots one - well, the video games, especially fighting games, never really try to establish a point in continuity where they can happen - look at Duel Fight Transformers Beast Wars: Beast Warriors' Strongest Decisive Battle, for instance. --flicky1991 11:42, 23 July 2013 (EDT)

That second bullet point REALLY does not address the design issue at all. The overwhelming majority of the first-year Kreons are blatantly designed specifically on the G1 models, as are a ton of the Micro-Changers. The chest tampos are of Datsuns and Toyota Onebox vans and COE Frieghtliners and etc. That is not the same as Aligned's amalgamated character visuals. Bot Shots and Kre-O are best left where they are, as "umbrella" franchises on their own. --M Sipher 17:04, 23 July 2013 (EDT)

Autobot Dropships,Other Things

Questions: Did we ever see an Autobot Dropship as close up as the Decepticons'? Who are worse: Brutes or Leapers? Should FOC's turrests have been like WFC's? Did the Guardians ever show their patrol mode (without the stealth cracker beam)? Did Autobot dropships change, like the 'con's? Did Trypicon seem too small to be the Nemesis when Megatron and Soundwave found him? Did the Energon Battle Pistol have a targeting beam, like the Null-ray? - J-Plane (talk) 17:52, 10 December 2014 (EST)

The dropships can be seen the best in the start of the last Autobot level, Definitely Leapers because Brutes are easy to trick especially with multiple people, no because of the new weapon layout, no the Guardians didn't that was scrapped, yes the Autobot dropships changed as seen in the Autobots' base in FOC's 1st Prime level, & if your talking about the sniper enemies then yes the battlepistol did have a targeting beam--Robogamer64 (talk) 09:16, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Official name

As of the new TCC magazine, it's not just the wiki's necessary construct anymore. In fact, the article claims "Aligned" has always been Hasbro's internal name for it. Jackpot, are you some sort of wizard? --ItsWalky (talk) 19:38, 18 December 2014 (EST)

Seperation between WFC/FOC and Prime/RID

Considering the big differences between character personalities in these 2 continuities especially with FOC to RID, Sideswipe being young & reckless in RID and mature and warhardened in FOC, and Grimlock being a Predacon/ Decpticon in RID should we seperate all the WFC/Prime pages to separate pages? They still could be part of the Aligned Continuity just different versions of the same character. What do you think?--Robogamer64 (talk) 09:24, 25 January 2015 (EST)

But we put different versions of the same character on the same page, like G1 Soundwave being different in the cartoon vs the comic. --abates (talk) 14:34, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Maybe we can do something like: Bumblebee(Aligned) then have a Games; Novels;T.V. Toys sections--Robogamer64 (talk) 14:48, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Is that, uh, not what the wiki already does? Jalaguy (talk) 14:52, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Yeah I know, I just didn't know if its called something so I just said that.--Robogamer64 (talk) 14:58, 25 January 2015 (EST)

I think Robogamer64 is suggesting we split up Aligned characters' pages not for size issues, as we did for Optimus Prime (G1), but as a workaround to not splitting characters' pages into separate articles, even though their portrayal is irreconcilable from one media to another. --Ascendron (talk) 15:18, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Exactly!--Robogamer64 (talk) 15:21, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Hmm. On one hand, if the latest cartoon is successful and produces a significant amount of stories to be recorded on each characters' pages, preemptively splitting their articles into several pages doesn't seem like a big deal. After all, they'll probably end up that way for the same reason that Optimus Prime (G1) did. But nonetheless, I'd want to hold off on this decision, as I'm a big stickler for consistency on this wiki. Try and see how people vote towards this suggestion? I'm willing to see this change go through, personally. --Ascendron (talk) 15:34, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Well, the Wiki isn't exactly consistent in such matters. Galvatron II is "officially" split despite being the same basic Megatron-remade-by-Unicron guy as the majority of the page - albeit as the second Marvel alt-future-moved-to-the-present Galvatron - whereas Galvatron (G1)/IDW Generation 1 continuity is merely "split to a subpage for length" when he has nothing to do with Megatron or Unicron. Japanese The Headmasters characters are on the same page as their Hasbro counterparts despite wildly different personalities and origins, later JG1 guys like the Seacons are split. There is very little consistency.

Now, on the topic at hand - the IDW FOC/Rage/BH comics made a HUGE effort to link FOC Grimlock and the TF Prime cartoon continuity. In which case, green/black ex-Decepticon Young Grimlock is absolutely "Grimlock II" until proven otherwise, since he has nothing in common with FOC Grimlock bar the name that (e.g.) Sideswipe and Knockout don't also share, as both red cars, one of whom was a Decepticon who defected to the Autobots. Not sure about Sideswipe himself, but I suppose the same query applies. - SanityOrMadness (talk) 15:40, 25 January 2015 (EST)

I guess for now we will see how this plays out and come back to it later if there is enough differenciation between the Games/Novels/Comics and TV shows to merit the change--Robogamer64 (talk) 18:40, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Titles

Why don't we call all of the family Aligned or ACF? For example, Soundwave (ACF) instead of Soundwave (WFC)Potatoman (talk) 04:05, 20 September 2015 (EDT)strange person with smart ideas

Because it wouldn't be consistent with how we disambiguate articles for characters in other continuity families. --abates (talk) 06:10, 20 September 2015 (EDT)

Specifically, TFWiki disambiguates by franchise, not continuity family, as this allows us to more easily differentiate between separate characters with the same name in the same family, such as Slipstream (WFC) and Slipstream (RID). Jalaguy (talk) 06:13, 20 September 2015 (EDT)