Talk:Knockoff

This page needs a pic of that SEND THE BOOKS Energon Prime KO. --FortMax 16:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Done.--MCRG 07:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Anyone have anything they want also covered in here? I think it's fairly complete otherwise...--MCRG 08:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

"It is probably safe to assume that knockoffs available in stores are quite legally produced and sold, and for those fans who collect them, this is fortunate: they provide a bizarre variety that is (with good reason) not to be found in official products." <-- Knockoffs are legal? Yeah, no. In other news, the number of African elephants triples!

Just a general note - I've never actually seen the names of the various Chinese KO companies thrown around before; can we get a citation/link to an article on these guys? -hx 10:55, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, following up on myself, these guys are some kind of gods of knockoffery. They have bootlegs I've never seen before, but would love to get my mitts on (G2 Powermasters, those Decepticon jets that had the scopes, tons of Real Gears, all kinds of crazy.) -hx 11:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Good lord, that's like the axis of flea market evil. I've seen most of that stuff. Sadly, no G2 Powermasters however.--MCRG 07:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)a

Hey look, USA Dark Saber and a Shrapnel that wishes he were dead!--MCRG 08:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll put citations in later today if I get the chance to. --Might Gaine 15:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

done --Might Gaine 23:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Trendmasters--isn't it more likely that they were just importing Leader Shine/Champion Crown toys themselves rather than KOing off Leader Shine, TFs, and Power Rangers? This would make sense since LS/CC themselves made KOs of Transformers and Power Rangers. By the way, what KO TFs and Power Rangers did they make? Were they the ones that made those small low-detail Dinobot knockoffs that Kay Bee used to sell in the 90s? I honestly had no idea Trendmasters was involved in KOs in the 90s until you brought that up. --Might Gaine 15:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I didn't learn about it myself until I was sorting through some of my old KO cards last year. I'd say they were importing the Leader Shine figures, but there's absolutely no mention of Leader Shine on the cards I've got, which are all Leader Shine insect figures purchased at Kay Bee Toys years ago, which is why I included them here. I have yet to find the figures again, but I recall them still having the Leader Shine mark on them, which they retained on the Tek Toys versions and even some of the Big Lots issues. I know for a fact that Trendmasters made bootlegs of Power Rangers' Turbo Rangers figures without the vast majority of paint applications. I've checked around a bit and believe they may have also been the supplier of the Grandus KO that Toys R Us carried for a short while, although that may have been Tek Toys again (it's tricky to get ahold of these dastardly boxes). I'm also reasonably certain that they were among the loads of companies that marketed through Kay Bee Toys, and are likely the supplier of the toys that ripped off the Dinobot transformations. They might have also been a US importer of the Dai-Lung Master Godzilla-ized Grimlock figure, but I haven't been able to find an old US boxed sample to check.--MCRG 07:33, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

If the Trendmasters insects have the Leader Shine mark on them, then they were probably importing them. The fact that the package doesn't mention Leader Shine isn't really a big deal--Sonokong Brave and TF toys don't mention Takara on their package, after all. The other bootlegs they sold were probably Leader Shine bootlegs as well. Do you have pictures of the PR Turbo bootlegs? When you say Grandus KO, you mean Sky Garry, right? I don't think that was them, but I believe I have one at home, so I can check when I get a chance. I think it was a company based out of Taiwan. I'm pretty sure the Mecha Godzilla Grimlock was just Leader Shine/Champion Crown releasing it directly. As for the Kay Bee dinobot knockoffs--that seems more likely to be Trendmasters given that (a) it was sold at Kay Bee as well, and (b) it fits Leader Shine's M.O. of a toy that transformers the same but is completely retooled. Too bad they were hard to find even back then. It would probably be nearly impossible to find them now. --Might Gaine 19:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I saw McDonalds Manta Ray with some Barbie knockoff at a flea market once. (184.56.18.164 23:57, 6 August 2011 (EDT))

Is this an knock off

hello i was wondering if this was an KO--Heckler (talk) 19:57, 10 October 2014 (EDT)

It's only $50, so definitely yes. --ItsWalky (talk) 00:39, 10 October 2014 (EDT)

I was getting suspicious with the low price so my guess it was either stolen(which is why it's dirt cheap so someone can buy it quickly and not get caught by law enforcement or a knock off--Heckler (talk) 19:57, 10 October 2014 (EDT)

eBay crackdown?

I'm pretty sure I heard that virtually all the auctions for the chinese G1 knockoffs have been pulled from eBay. I certainly can't seem to find a Mirage, Metroplex, or cassette set right now. I'm assuming Hasbro said something to eBay? -hx 18:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Just asking

Should anything be said here about things like iG34r and F4nsPr0j3¢t or would it be best to ignore them? - Starfield 15:04, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

iGear are, at this point, a knockoff manufacturer. FansProject are not.--Rosicrucian^Talk 15:07, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

FansProject has yet to copy anything from a Hasbro mold, even wheels, so that's a resounding no. I think I'll leave iGear out for now as they're mainly just infringing on a copyright currently as opposed to making straight up copies of Hasbro and Takara molds to my knowledge, but I'll suppose I'll wait and see.--MCRG Again 17:28, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Nope, iGear has actually made the jump with a scaled-down Masterpiece Optimus Prime knockoff.--Rosicrucian^Talk 17:40, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Uh...

The Chinese even dare to use the modified version logo of TFW2005 on their knockoff package...^[1] --TX55^TALK 11:02, 28 November 2009 (EST)

Well, if you're already stealing molds, and Dreamwave art, that's kind of spit in the ocean.--Rosicrucian^Talk 11:06, 28 November 2009 (EST)

Bootleg vs knock off

Does anyone else see a difference between these two things? I had always thought of bootlegs as unofficial productions from the actual HasTak molds, while knock offs are made using molds produced by the knock off manufacturer. Khajidha 23:56, 20 December 2009 (EST)

Nope, bootleg is a synonym of knockoff/knockoff is a synonyn of bootleg. No differences

Space Warriors: Beast Tech Fighters

I've owned a few for a long time, and I'm surprised they aren't mentioned here. Agglo, a Hong Kong based toy manufacturer known for low-cost children's items and knockoffs of toys from other companies, made knockoffs in this line of Transmetal 2 Rattrap, Transmetal 2 Megatron, RID Megatron, Beast Machines Optimus Primal (but this one is more accurate to the show than the real toy ironically), Leo Convoy, Heinrad, Armordillo, BW Sonar, Transmetal 2 Spittor, Scarem and some others as well. I own all of them except for RID Megatron and the latter 4. (And I lost the Leo Convoy Knockoff, which saddens me sense I loved that toy) they are all however, very low quality plastic which breaks very, very easy. Another interesting thing to note: On its packaging on the front, its main robot it likes to show is Beast Machines Cheetor, which so far I've not seen them have any toys of. Still, I feel they are worth mentioning sense Beast Wars Knockoffs are rather rare.--Chipmonk328

Added to article, sense no one ever replied. I have proof so if you need any pictures as proof, I can provide them. (I own alot of them) There is also this youtube video if you need more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfMDWCpQ0Y--Chipmonk328 and just in case that wasn't enough proof, I found another one on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKM5LfbFhpY--Chipmonk328

Kid(d)i Toys

Is it "Kidi Toys" or "Kiddi Toys"? Currently both are used in the article. --Khajidha 14:21, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

Quick Change Transforming System

Any word on this line of toys? Pretty much all of them are G1 molds and is known for its enlarged minicons and shrunken Fortress Maximus.

Plus, it has those Robot Masters knockoffs, including a Star Saber that can combine with Victory Leo, but can't transform. Then some other oddities, like that dragonfly robot that is evidently an original mold. 72.35.60.2 11:00, 22 November 2010 (EST)

iGear

As far as I'm concerned, they don't deserve to be shoved into the "knockoff companies" list, especially not without further explanation.

What's needed is an "unlicensed third party products" section that explains the legal problems surrounding them. Groups like iGear, Perfect Effect, the WST Dinobots company and similar collector-oriented garage production companies belong there, not with the mass production "Fitedeformdeform" folks. (Though I admit the G1 counterfeit folks create some sort of link between the two groups.) Transrepro and their "Black Tracks" incident should also belong there.--Nevermore 11:55, 25 November 2010 (EST)

I'm not really an expert on third party stuff, but iGear is the third party company that is most often scoffed at by the community for their delving into scaled down Masterpiece figures. A lot of their stuff seems to be original, but that scaled down Prime and Megatron and those Masterpiece Coneheads really got everyone into a tizzy. iGear was either placed on the page seriously by someone who considered iGear to be treading the line between unlicensed producer and knockoff company, or as a joke from someone who has seen the shitstorm about the company online. Whichever it is, I just wanted to get my two cents in. Unlicensed producers and their products, have also been said to have no place on the wiki. --Kaymac192 17:11, 30 December 2010 (EST)

Well, I'd say if a general catch-all "knockoff" article has a place on the Wiki, then a single, catch-all "unlicensed third party products and add-ons" article should exist too. Not a blow-by-blow rundown on every single release and variation, but an overview of the phenomenon in general, and a brief rundown on the various "companies". Stuff like the old Unicron.com accessory packs could also go there.--Nevermore 13:01, 22 April 2011 (EDT)

I tend to agree, but I think it could be more trouble than it's worth, as people would constantly be anon-updating it with the latest EYE-PEE VYOLATOR COMBAT MACHINE POPTIMUS FIRST or whatever. -hx 09:16, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

I certainly see what you're getting at. Plus new companies pop up all the time. Plus once it's made, people may start demanding individual pages for the individual companies. I say if we're going to make a page, best to make sure someone monitors it, or it's kept locked. They are as much a part of the Transformers market as the for parts and knockoff pages are. Personally, I think the whole third party thing will blow over soon, but that's probably since I don't purchase the stuff. Also, the page may contain unneeded bias towards or against producers of the products. --Kaymac192 00:20, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

Gold Knockoff

IIRC, I've ever saw gold or silver non-licensed products in other toy franchises, but this is the first time I see a Gold Knockoff Transformer. Should this be mentioned? Or not because it is rarely seen? --TX55^TALK 12:13, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

Gold Transformer bootlegs have been around since at least the early '90s. They aren't terribly frequent, but they aren't particularly notable either.--MCRG 23:34, 6 August 2011 (EDT)

Another court case

The article mentions Hasbro Bradley vs. Sparkle Toys, but how about Wales Industrial vs. Hasbro Bradley? I'm not particularly versed in legalese, but from how I understand it, that case also serves as a precedence regarding Hasbro's copyrights vs. knockoffs. Anyone?--Nevermore 10:21, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

Quick Change Battle Robot

The Family Dollar in my neighborhood is selling fake knock offs of Transformers called Quickchangers. There are 5 different robots. That look like different Autobots. There's no good vs. Evil, character bios, no character names, all five are identified only as "Battle Robot". The Quick Change Battle Robot.71.162.103.131 14:25, 8 September 2012 (EDT)

Alright so is there an official TFWiki policy on 3rd party toys

Because in the last 1-2 years the number of them has positively exploded, in many cases they produce better representations of the characters than Hasbro/Takara themselves, and this Wiki is getting much less comprehensive for basically putting its head in the sand. If there's no official policy making them verboten, I'm going to start adding individual pages for the companies, and we can decide whether to add the individual toys to their official character section, or make new pages for them. Hagetaka 18:03, 5 November 2012 (EST)

...how exactly is this wiki less comprehensive in its purview of covering the Transformers story and merch by not covering ex-canon, illegal toys? If they did open it up, where would it logically end? Would they be obligated to cover any Optimus Prime doodles that some dude made and sold to a kid's mom for a nickel? What about Robot Chicken?

A bit hyperbolic, sure, but at least stuff like Robot Chicken isn't flagrantly defying IP laws.KrytenKoro 18:08, 5 November 2012 (EST)

The official word on these "third party" toys is actually on the Customizing article: As advanced casting and mold-making technology becomes more readily available, a number of fans have turned to mass-producing their creations. These range from model kits of the Quintessons to fully transformable model kits of Wheelie and Cyclonus and "upgrade" kits to add extra parts to Classics Cliffjumper and Ultra Magnus. As these are not officially licensed Hasbro/Takara product, they are generally beyond the purview of this Wiki, so we'll just leave it at "Yes, we know they exist and yes, they're neat." --Detour 18:12, 5 November 2012 (EST)

"ex-canon, illegal toys"? Pffttt- whatever. Get your panties out of a twist and look at the situation realistically. They're unlicensed, copyright-infringing adult collectibles aimed at hardcore TF fans. Which, surprise surprise, happens to be the core audience here. A huge number of hardcore TF fans have at least one of them, and only their high cost is keeping them from even greater popularity. The two Devastator redesigns, the upcoming Superion redesign and Omega Supreme are all drawing news and excitement. Half the news on TF fan sites is coming from the 3rd party area. Whether you dislike them or not, they are there and a major and growing part of the fandom. The stance as copied on the Customizing article was fine for its time, but woefully outdated. We're way beyond extra guns for Classics Bumblebee or a bigger sword for God Magnus here. Hagetaka 19:47, 5 November 2012 (EST)

The news coverage doesn't mean squat. They still remain unlicensed product and beyond the purview of this Wiki, and that has always been the stance. --Detour 19:50, 5 November 2012 (EST)

"Supreme Battle Truck Leader X15-A is an unofficial Transformer that looks kind of like Optimus Prime." There's the entire article for a knockoff. The wikia could use an edge, why not try to convince them to document 3rd party stuff?--Carrion 20:24, 5 November 2012 (EST)

"Look at the situation realistically." Okay. Realistically, Transformers is an entertainment franchise owned by Hasbro and TakaraTomy. These two companies license out some portions of the production of this franchise to other companies. As these 3rd party companies are not Hasbro, TakaraTomy or a licensee of Hasbro or TakaraTomy, their products are not actually Transformers. As they are not TFs and have not been featured in fiction alongside TFs, they are not something we cover. --Khajidha 08:46, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Actually, I've got a side question. To my understanding, one of the reasons that these third party groups aren't already burned to ashes is that Hasbro is "unaware of that knock-off". Since Hasbro employees edit this wiki, wouldn't coverage of knock-offs remove that excuse and force Hasbro to come down upon the third party groups Like The Hammer Of Thor?

I mean, if I'm not out of my gourd here, wouldn't wiki coverage of the third party knockoffs be the last thing their fans and manufacturers would want?KrytenKoro 10:21, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Third party article

Obnoxious user up there does have a point: 3rd party toys have become a major phenomena in the fandom. We should have an article to address it - it could closely parallel this one in structure and content. - Repowers 23:54, 2 February 2013 (EST)

i was on the verge of creating the article myself ([[third party toys]]? [[3rd party merchandise]]?) & linking it to knockoff & customizing when i thought first i should check those articles & talk pages. Glad i did. When i'm more awake, would someone show me how to make a whatchamacallit, Sandstorm? sandbox? Here's a rough draft of what i was thinking:

Some Transformers fans, desiring greater show-accuracy and articulation than official products provide, have set themselves up as third party toymakers. For Hasbro's response to these third parties, see Hasbro Q&A/May 2009, particularly here and here. Note, however, that at least one third party figure has been canonized: a JizaiToys design used as the title character in Spotlight: Wheelie. See also: customizing, knockoff

--Rhymus (talk) 04:40, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

If we're going to discuss it here, it needs to be sufficiently vague. Also, I believe the JizaiToys designs in particular were sold legally at one of the Japanese conventions - someone who knows more about it can fill in the blanks, but at certain Japanese cons, there's a sort of "one day license" that makes your otherwise third-party product temporarily authorized. So that's a grey-ish area. Also, IIRC, an MTMTE cover used a third party Gears and Huffer as art references at some point. I think that's already been documented. IN OTHER WORDS: there probably oughta be some kind of article on the concept, referencing some specific examples where they've been used in official materials as reference models, etc., but largely remaining at arm's length. Certainly no articles on specific products, and I'd even be disinclined to mention specific products outside of the most absolutely necessary - like how the very first known 3P accessory was a fusion cannon for AM Megatron, sold under one of those one-day licenses at a Japanese convention (anyone else remember these? Someone had a few at the early early BotCons...) -hx (talk) 07:23, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

Why does it need to be vague and standoffish, exactly? Third-party toys are clearly of great interest to the fandom, and TFwiki is not owned or controlled by Hasbro. There's a world of difference between knockoffs and counterfeits intended to trick confused grandparents or eBay-shopping fans, and upmarket third-party toys clearly and honestly aimed at fans who want high-quality versions of their favorite G1 characters. By all means document their legal status so people can make their own decisions, but I don't think it makes sense to take a moral stand when I'm looking at an ad for third-party toys in the TFwiki sidebar as I type this. Phasma Felis (talk) 00:54, 7 March 2015 (EST)

I agree. Knockoffs and unofficial guides are already articles, so Third Party stuff seems a valid idea for inclusion. It need not (and possibly should not itemise each one, but something with a broad/historical angle could work. Is there somewhere we go to vote on such things in this wiki? --MissRatbat (talk) 22:41, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

It needs to be vague (I wouldn't characterize it as "standoffish") because there are an awful lot of third-party projects, and once you open the door a little it's hard to keep it from being flung wide open. Keeping it vague allows the phenomena to be addressed without necessitating a framework to document each and every third-party accessory, company, product, etc. The line-in-the-sand the wiki has drawn is ALL official products and media and ONLY official products and media. Otherwise you're doing articles about every Family Guy joke and unlicensed robot that's vaguely Transformersy. If you want to document every third-party Transformersy product that comes out, it'd be easy enough to start your own wiki to do it. Do a thorough enough job and we might even vote to link to it from here, the way we do with Star Wars and Joe material.--Jimsorenson (talk) 15:53, 2 April 2015 (EDT)

Has there been further movement on this? I'm new to TF scene and was curious about exactly where these high-quality unlicensed toys i've heard about fall into things. It seems very strange that this wiki has almost no reference to their existence at all beyond a small paragraph in the customization article (Which really fails to capture the full scope since they're well beyond upgrades and add-on kits now). The knockoff article as currently written doesn't truly address the topic and I feel an "Unlicensed Third Party Transformers" article that summarizes the history, origins and any controversy from a neutral perspective. As-is just not having anything on them seems to be...I don't know, almost passive-aggressive to me somehow. Just acknowledging they exist isn't an endorsement.--BravoTen (talk)

I am perfectly happy being passive-aggressive. --ItsWalky (talk) 18:10, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

I've got a sandbox article here, and will try and finish it up now that finals are over. I probably wouldn't describe it as neutral... Jalaguy (talk) 18:57, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

I mean, that seems fine to me; there's nothing you're saying in there that isn't fact. It states what they, provides a brief history and further details why they have no further documentation on the wiki. I think that's serviceable. BravoTen --(talk) 22:10, 2 June 2015 (EDT)

Possible addition of knockoff entertainment?

Does anyone else think we should have a small section dedicated to animated films that are infamous for ripping off the designs of Transformers/Diaclone/Microman/Go-bots toys? I've heard of a few, like "Diatron 5" and "Phoenix King" and I think it might be worth mentioning that the transformers toys aren't the only things being illegally ripped off by dubious companies.

What ISN'T a knockoff?

I feel like we probably need a bit here about Con-Ver-Tors, which while they were "bootleg" in the sense that they weren't official Transformers product, were actually made using licensed molds from ...Bandai, IIRC. -hx (talk) 09:19, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

Fansproject

I oftently heard of Fansproject. Their toys look really simillar to the original and are quite expensive. Do they count as KO companies or fan-made customs?

I would think the latter, because they're neither replicas of official product nor meant to be mistaken for it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 13:11, 2 April 2015 (EDT)

Diecast AOE Knockoffs

Recently there've been some high-quality diecast knockoffs from AOE toys. Should I add them as a single sentence at the bottom or just leave it?

By 'high quality', I don't mean barely okay, I mean they're actually a little better than the original in many respects (added details, diecast (duh), etc.) --Dekershekers (talk) 03:54, 20 November 2015 (EST)

Takasa Tony

Are we gonna mention the guys that are mass-producing the Autobot cars and Decepti-cassettes? Other than the ones that actually put Takara Tomy on it, of course.

Is this a ko MP10 Optimus Prime?

Is this a KO? https://www.ebay.com/itm/TAKARA-TOMY-Transformers-Masterpiece-MP-10-Optimus-Prime-Action-Figure-Japan-Ver/143471287081?hash=item21678e1b29%3Ag%3A63MAAOSwVuNbHp-p&LH_All=1 Don’t really care if it is.

Top image

The opening image for this page is weird, is that thing a bootleg of any existing Transformers toy? It just looks like some generic Voltron-esque robot and I don't get why it belongs here. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 13:37, 26 July 2024 (EDT))

Nevermind, I just saw this review and realized that this bizarre thing does in fact use a few parts from Omega Supreme. Still, since it's not very illustrative of Transformers bootlegs in general (it doesn't even look like a Transformers toy at a glance!), I will move it further down in the article together with a new entry about it and its company and add a new provisional opening image. If any KO collectors out there could get a picture with multiple bootlegs from different eras together then that could make a great opener to the article, actionfigurechecklist.com has quite a few in the "Group Shots" section but they're unfortunately very old and low in quality. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 17:06, 16 August 2024 (EDT))