MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. For less wide-reaching subjects, either use articles' individual talk pages or our Discord server.

Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{#if:|[[{{{prev}}}|«]]|}}	style="color:{{{headertextcolor}}}"}}|{{#if:|{{#switch:{{{series}}}	micromasters=Transformers: Micromasters{{#if: | #{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}[[Category:Micromasters issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]	joevstf1=G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers{{#if: | #{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}[[Category:G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]	joevstf2=G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers II{{#if: | #{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}[[Category:G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]	joevstfaow=G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers: The Art of War{{#if: | #{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}[[Category:G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]	joevstfbh=G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers: Black Horizon{{#if: | #{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}[[Category:G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]	tfgijoedf=[[{{#ifeq:{{{series}}}|tfgijoedf|Transformers/G.I. Joe: Divided Front|Transformers/G.I. Joe}}]]{{#if: | #{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}[[Category:Transformers/G.I. Joe issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]	regeneration one=The Transformers: Regeneration One{{#if: | #{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}[[Category:Regeneration One issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]	{{#ifeq:{{#switch:{{{series}}}	transformers spotlight|transformers: spotlight|the transformers spotlight|the transformers: spotlight=The Transformers: Spotlight	transformers infiltration|transformers: infiltration|the transformers infiltration|the transformers: infiltration=The Transformers: Infiltration	transformers stormbringer|transformers: stormbringer|the transformers stormbringer|the transformers: stormbringer=The Transformers: Stormbringer	transformers escalation|transformers: escalation|the transformers escalation|the transformers: escalation=The Transformers: Escalation	megorigin|megatron origin|transformers megatron origin|transformers: megatron origin|the transformers megatron origin|the transformers: megatron origin=The Transformers: Megatron Origin	transformers devastation|transformers: devastation|the transformers devastation|the transformers: devastation=The Transformers: Devastation	maximum dinobots|transformers maximum dinobots|transformers: maximum dinobots|the transformers maximum dinobots|the transformers: maximum dinobots=The Transformers: Maximum Dinobots	premierecollection|premiere collection|the transformers: the premiere collection=The Transformers: The Premiere Collection	all hail megatron|transformers all hail megatron|transformers: all hail megatron|the transformers all hail megatron|the transformers: all hail megatron=The Transformers: All Hail Megatron	the idw collection|the transformers: the idw collection=The Transformers: The IDW Collection	the transformers|the transformers (ongoing)=The Transformers (IDW)|The Transformers vol. 1	transformers bumblebee|transformers: bumblebee|the transformers bumblebee|the transformers: bumblebee=The Transformers: Bumblebee	wreckers|last stand of the wreckers|transformers last stand of the wreckers|transformers: last stand of the wreckers|the transformers last stand of the wreckers|the transformers: last stand of the wreckers=The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers	transformers ironhide|transformers: ironhide|the transformers ironhide|the transformers: ironhide=The Transformers: Ironhide	transformers drift|transformers: drift|the transformers drift|the transformers: drift=The Transformers: Drift	the idw collection|g.i. joe: the idw collection=G.I. Joe: The IDW Collection	infestation=Infestation (IDW)|Infestation	infestation 2=Infestation 2	heart of darkness|transformers heart of darkness|transformers: heart of darkness|the transformers heart of darkness|the transformers: heart of darkness=The Transformers: Heart of Darkness	tdoop|death of optimus prime|the death of optimus prime|transformers: the death of optimus prime=Transformers: The Death of Optimus Prime	more than meets the eye|transformers: more than meets the eye|the transformers: more than meets the eye=The Transformers: More than Meets the Eye	robots in disguise|transformers: robots in disguise=The Transformers: Robots in Disguise	dark cybertron=Dark Cybertron (IDW)|Dark Cybertron	exrid|the transformers (idw) vol. 2=The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|The Transformers vol. 2	drift:eos|drift: empire of stone|transformers drift: empire of stone|transformers: drift: empire of stone|the transformers drift: empire of stone|drift: empire of stone=The Transformers: Drift - Empire of Stone	the transformers: windblade=The Transformers: Windblade	windblade2015|the transformers: windblade vol. 2|the transformers: windblade (2015)=The Transformers: Windblade|The Transformers: Windblade vol. 2	transformers autocracy|transformers: autocracy|the transformers autocracy|autocracy=The Transformers: Autocracy	transformers monstrosity|transformers: monstrosity|the transformers monstrosity|monstrosity=The Transformers: Monstrosity	transformers primacy|transformers: primacy|the transformers primacy|primacy=The Transformers: Primacy	sins of the wreckers|transformers sins of the wreckers|transformers: sins of the wreckers|the transformers sins of the wreckers|the transformers: sins of the wreckers=The Transformers: Sins of the Wreckers	transformers punishment|transformers: punishment|the transformers punishment|the transformers: punishment|punishment=The Transformers: Punishment	transformers redemption|transformers: redemption|the transformers redemption|the transformers: redemption|redemption=The Transformers: Redemption	transformers salvation|transformers: salvation|the transformers salvation|the transformers: salvation|salvation=The Transformers: Salvation	transformers vs gi joe|transformers vs. g.i. joe=Transformers vs. G.I. Joe	combiner hunters|combiner hunters (comic)=An Uneventful Night|Combiner Hunters	titans return|titans return (comic)=Titans Return (comic)|Titans Return	till all are one|transformers: till all are one|the transformers: till all are one=The Transformers: Till All Are One	lost light|transformers: lost light|the transformers: lost light=The Transformers: Lost Light	optimus prime|optimus prime (comic)=Optimus Prime (comic)|Optimus Prime	annual2017|transformers annual 2017=Ghost Stories|Transformers Annual 2017	revolution=Revolution	revolutionaries=Revolutionaries	action man=Action Man (comic)|Action Man	gijoe5|gijoevol5|g.i. joe vol. 5|gi joe vol 5=G.I. Joe vol. 5	hasbro heroes sourcebook=Hasbro Heroes Sourcebook	micronauts=Micronauts (comic)|Micronauts	wrath of karza|micronauts wrath of karza|micronauts: wrath of karza=Micronauts: Wrath of Karza	first strike=First Strike	ROM	rom dire wraiths|rom: dire wraiths=Rom: Dire Wraiths	romamn|rom&mn|rom and the micronauts|rom & the micronauts=Rom & the Micronauts	rom vs transformers|shining armor|rom vs. transformers|rom vs transformers: shining armor|rom vs transformers: shining armor=Rom vs. Transformers: Shining Armor	m.a.s.k.|m. a. s. k.|mask mobile armored strike kommand|m.a.s.k. mobile armored strike kommand|mask: mobile armored strike kommand|m.a.s.k.: mobile armored strike command=M.A.S.K.: Mobile Armored Strike Kommand	scarletts strike force|scarlett's strike force=Scarlett's Strike Force	transformers vs visionaries|transformers vs. visionaries=Transformers vs. Visionaries	requiem of the wreckers|transformers requiem of the wreckers|transformers: requiem of the wreckers=Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers	transformers unicron|transformers: unicron=Transformers: Unicron	{{{series}}} |{{#ifeq:{{#switch:{{{series}}}	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=Transformers: War for Cybertron (comic)	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Transformers: Fall of Cybertron (comic)	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)=Transformers: Prime (graphic novel)	prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Transformers: Prime (comic series)	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Transformers Prime: Rage of the Dinobots	beast hunters|transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Full of Fire!	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 comic)	{{{series}}}	[[{{#switch:{{{series}}}	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=Transformers: War for Cybertron (comic)	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Transformers: Fall of Cybertron (comic)	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)=Transformers: Prime (graphic novel)	prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Transformers: Prime (comic series)	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Transformers Prime: Rage of the Dinobots	beast hunters|transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Full of Fire!	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 comic)	#{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}{{#ifeq: MediaWiki talk | Category	[[Category:IDW {{#switch:{{#switch:{{{series}}}	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=Transformers: War for Cybertron (comic)	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Transformers: Fall of Cybertron (comic)	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)=Transformers: Prime (graphic novel)	prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Transformers: Prime (comic series)	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Transformers Prime: Rage of the Dinobots	beast hunters|transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Full of Fire!	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 comic)	{{{series}}}}}	{{#switch:prime	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=Transformers: War for Cybertron (comic)	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Transformers: Fall of Cybertron (comic)	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)=Transformers: Prime (graphic novel)	prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Transformers: Prime (comic series)	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Transformers Prime: Rage of the Dinobots	beast hunters|transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Full of Fire!	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 comic)	{{#switch:primeadaptation	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=Transformers: War for Cybertron (comic)	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Transformers: Fall of Cybertron (comic)	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)=Transformers: Prime (graphic novel)	prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Transformers: Prime (comic series)	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Transformers Prime: Rage of the Dinobots	beast hunters|transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Full of Fire!	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 comic)	{{#switch:ragedinobots	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=Transformers: War for Cybertron (comic)	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Transformers: Fall of Cybertron (comic)	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)=Transformers: Prime (graphic novel)	prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Transformers: Prime (comic series)	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Transformers Prime: Rage of the Dinobots	beast hunters|transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Full of Fire!	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 comic)	ragedinobots}}=Prime	{{#switch:rid2015	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=Transformers: War for Cybertron (comic)	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Transformers: Fall of Cybertron (comic)	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)=Transformers: Prime (graphic novel)	prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Transformers: Prime (comic series)	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Transformers Prime: Rage of the Dinobots	beast hunters|transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Full of Fire!	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 comic)	rid2015}}=Robots in Disguise (2015)	{{#switch:{{{series}}}	war for cybertron|warforcybertron|transformers: war for cybertron|transformers: war for cybertron (comic)=War for Cybertron	fall of cybertron|fallofcybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron|transformers: fall of cybertron (comic)=Fall of Cybertron	transformers: prime|transformers: prime (comic)|primeadaptation|prime adaptation|transformers: prime (comic series)=Prime	primerage|ragedinobots|rage of the dinobots|rageofthedinobots|primeragedinobots|transformers prime: rage of the dinobots=Prime – Rage of the Dinobots	transformers prime: beast hunters (comic)=Prime – Beast Hunters	fulloffire|full of fire|full of fire!=Prime – Beast Hunters Special	rid2015|robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015)|transformers: robots in disguise (2015 comic)=Robots in Disguise (2015)	Aligned}}}} issues{{#if: yes	[[{{#switch:{{{series}}}	transformers spotlight|transformers: spotlight|the transformers spotlight|the transformers: spotlight=The Transformers: Spotlight	transformers infiltration|transformers: infiltration|the transformers infiltration|the transformers: infiltration=The Transformers: Infiltration	transformers stormbringer|transformers: stormbringer|the transformers stormbringer|the transformers: stormbringer=The Transformers: Stormbringer	transformers escalation|transformers: escalation|the transformers escalation|the transformers: escalation=The Transformers: Escalation	megorigin|megatron origin|transformers megatron origin|transformers: megatron origin|the transformers megatron origin|the transformers: megatron origin=The Transformers: Megatron Origin	transformers devastation|transformers: devastation|the transformers devastation|the transformers: devastation=The Transformers: Devastation	maximum dinobots|transformers maximum dinobots|transformers: maximum dinobots|the transformers maximum dinobots|the transformers: maximum dinobots=The Transformers: Maximum Dinobots	premierecollection|premiere collection|the transformers: the premiere collection=The Transformers: The Premiere Collection	all hail megatron|transformers all hail megatron|transformers: all hail megatron|the transformers all hail megatron|the transformers: all hail megatron=The Transformers: All Hail Megatron	the idw collection|the transformers: the idw collection=The Transformers: The IDW Collection	the transformers|the transformers (ongoing)=The Transformers (IDW)|The Transformers vol. 1	transformers bumblebee|transformers: bumblebee|the transformers bumblebee|the transformers: bumblebee=The Transformers: Bumblebee	wreckers|last stand of the wreckers|transformers last stand of the wreckers|transformers: last stand of the wreckers|the transformers last stand of the wreckers|the transformers: last stand of the wreckers=The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers	transformers ironhide|transformers: ironhide|the transformers ironhide|the transformers: ironhide=The Transformers: Ironhide	transformers drift|transformers: drift|the transformers drift|the transformers: drift=The Transformers: Drift	the idw collection|g.i. joe: the idw collection=G.I. Joe: The IDW Collection	infestation=Infestation (IDW)|Infestation	infestation 2=Infestation 2	heart of darkness|transformers heart of darkness|transformers: heart of darkness|the transformers heart of darkness|the transformers: heart of darkness=The Transformers: Heart of Darkness	tdoop|death of optimus prime|the death of optimus prime|transformers: the death of optimus prime=Transformers: The Death of Optimus Prime	more than meets the eye|transformers: more than meets the eye|the transformers: more than meets the eye=The Transformers: More than Meets the Eye	robots in disguise|transformers: robots in disguise=The Transformers: Robots in Disguise	dark cybertron=Dark Cybertron (IDW)|Dark Cybertron	exrid|the transformers (idw) vol. 2=The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|The Transformers vol. 2	drift:eos|drift: empire of stone|transformers drift: empire of stone|transformers: drift: empire of stone|the transformers drift: empire of stone|drift: empire of stone=The Transformers: Drift - Empire of Stone	the transformers: windblade=The Transformers: Windblade	windblade2015|the transformers: windblade vol. 2|the transformers: windblade (2015)=The Transformers: Windblade|The Transformers: Windblade vol. 2	transformers autocracy|transformers: autocracy|the transformers autocracy|autocracy=The Transformers: Autocracy	transformers monstrosity|transformers: monstrosity|the transformers monstrosity|monstrosity=The Transformers: Monstrosity	transformers primacy|transformers: primacy|the transformers primacy|primacy=The Transformers: Primacy	sins of the wreckers|transformers sins of the wreckers|transformers: sins of the wreckers|the transformers sins of the wreckers|the transformers: sins of the wreckers=The Transformers: Sins of the Wreckers	transformers punishment|transformers: punishment|the transformers punishment|the transformers: punishment|punishment=The Transformers: Punishment	transformers redemption|transformers: redemption|the transformers redemption|the transformers: redemption|redemption=The Transformers: Redemption	transformers salvation|transformers: salvation|the transformers salvation|the transformers: salvation|salvation=The Transformers: Salvation	transformers vs gi joe|transformers vs. g.i. joe=Transformers vs. G.I. Joe	combiner hunters|combiner hunters (comic)=An Uneventful Night|Combiner Hunters	titans return|titans return (comic)=Titans Return (comic)|Titans Return	till all are one|transformers: till all are one|the transformers: till all are one=The Transformers: Till All Are One	lost light|transformers: lost light|the transformers: lost light=The Transformers: Lost Light	optimus prime|optimus prime (comic)=Optimus Prime (comic)|Optimus Prime	annual2017|transformers annual 2017=Ghost Stories|Transformers Annual 2017	revolution=Revolution	revolutionaries=Revolutionaries	action man=Action Man (comic)|Action Man	gijoe5|gijoevol5|g.i. joe vol. 5|gi joe vol 5=G.I. Joe vol. 5	hasbro heroes sourcebook=Hasbro Heroes Sourcebook	micronauts=Micronauts (comic)|Micronauts	wrath of karza|micronauts wrath of karza|micronauts: wrath of karza=Micronauts: Wrath of Karza	first strike=First Strike	ROM	rom dire wraiths|rom: dire wraiths=Rom: Dire Wraiths	romamn|rom&mn|rom and the micronauts|rom & the micronauts=Rom & the Micronauts	rom vs transformers|shining armor|rom vs. transformers|rom vs transformers: shining armor|rom vs transformers: shining armor=Rom vs. Transformers: Shining Armor	m.a.s.k.|m. a. s. k.|mask mobile armored strike kommand|m.a.s.k. mobile armored strike kommand|mask: mobile armored strike kommand|m.a.s.k.: mobile armored strike command=M.A.S.K.: Mobile Armored Strike Kommand	scarletts strike force|scarlett's strike force=Scarlett's Strike Force	transformers vs visionaries|transformers vs. visionaries=Transformers vs. Visionaries	requiem of the wreckers|transformers requiem of the wreckers|transformers: requiem of the wreckers=Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers	transformers unicron|transformers: unicron=Transformers: Unicron	#{{{issueno}}}| }}{{#if: yes|issues:}}{{#ifeq: MediaWiki talk | Category	[[Category:{{#switch:{{{series}}}	premierecollection|premiere collection|the transformers: the premiere collection|idwcollection|the idw collection|the transformers: the idw collection=IDW Collection	transformers spotlight|transformers: spotlight|the transformers spotlight|spotlight=Spotlight	transformers infiltration|transformers: infiltration|the transformers infiltration|infiltration=Infiltration	transformers stormbringer|transformers: stormbringer|the transformers stormbringer|the transformers: stormbringer=Stormbringer	transformers escalation|transformers: escalation|the transformers escalation|escalation=Escalation	megorigin|megatron origin|transformers megatron origin|transformers: megatron origin|the transformers megatron origin|the transformers: megatron origin=Megatron Origin	transformers devastation|transformers: devastation|the transformers devastation|devastation=Devastation	maximum dinobots|transformers maximum dinobots|transformers: maximum dinobots|the transformers maximum dinobots|maximum dinobots=Maximum Dinobots	all hail megatron|transformers all hail megatron|transformers: all hail megatron|the transformers all hail megatron|all hail megatron=All Hail Megatron	the transformers|the transformers (ongoing)|the transformers (idw)=IDW The Transformers	transformers bumblebee|transformers: bumblebee|the transformers bumblebee|bumblebee=Bumblebee	wreckers|last stand of the wreckers|transformers last stand of the wreckers|transformers: last stand of the wreckers|the transformers last stand of the wreckers|last stand of the wreckers=Last Stand of the Wreckers	transformers ironhide|transformers: ironhide|the transformers ironhide|ironhide=Ironhide	Infestation (IDW)=Infestation	Infestation2|Infestation 2=Infestation	transformers drift|transformers: drift|the transformers drift|drifteos|drift:eos|drift: empire of stone|transformers drift: empire of stone|transformers: drift: empire of stone|the transformers drift: empire of stone|drift: empire of stone|transformers drift: origins and empires|transformers drift: origins & empires|origins and empires|origins & empires=Drift	heart of darkness|transformers heart of darkness|transformers: heart of darkness|the transformers heart of darkness|heart of darkness=Heart of Darkness	tdoop|death of optimus prime|the death of optimus prime|transformers: the death of optimus prime=The Death of Optimus Prime	more than meets the eye|transformers: more than meets the eye=IDW More than Meets the Eye	robots in disguise|transformers: robots in disguise|ongoing2|exrid|the transformers (idw) vol. 2=IDW Robots in Disguise (2012)	dark cybertron=Dark Cybertron	the transformers: windblade|windblade2|windblade2015|the transformers: windblade vol. 2|the transformers: windblade (2015)=Windblade	transformers autocracy|transformers: autocracy|the transformers autocracy|autocracy=Autocracy	transformers monstrosity|transformers: monstrosity|the transformers monstrosity|monstrosity=Monstrosity	transformers primacy|transformers: primacy|the transformers primacy|primacy=Primacy	transformers punishment|transformers: punishment|the transformers punishment|the transformers: punishment|punishment=Punishment	transformers redemption|transformers: redemption|the transformers redemption|the transformers: redemption|redemption=Redemption	transformers salvation|transformers: salvation|the transformers salvation|the transformers: salvation|salvation=Salvation	marsattackstransformers|mars attacks: the transformers=Mars Attacks: The Transformers	transformers deviations|transformers: deviations=IDW crossover	synergy: a hasbro creators showcase=IDW crossover	transformers vs gi joe|transformers vs. g.i. joe=Transformers vs. G.I. Joe	sotw|wreckers2|sins of the wreckers|transformers sins of the wreckers|transformers: sins of the wreckers|the transformers sins of the wreckers|the transformers: sins of the wreckers=Sins of the Wreckers	combiner hunters|combiner hunters (comic)=Combiner Hunters	titans return|titans return (comic)=Titans Return	optimus prime|optimus prime (comic)=Optimus Prime	annual2017|2017 Annual|Annual 2017=Transformers Annual 2017	lost light|transformers lost light|the transformers lost light|transformers: lost light|the transformers: lost light=Lost Light	till all are one|Till All Are One|transformers till all are one|transformers: till all are one|the transformers till all are one|the transformers: till all are one=Till All Are One	revolution=Revolution	revolutionaries=Revolutionaries	action man=Action Man	gijoe5|g.i. joe vol 5|g.i. joe vol. 5|g.i. joe volume 5|g.i. joe (vol. 5)|g.i. joe (volume 5)=G.I. Joe vol. 5	g.i. joe idw collection=G.I. Joe: The IDW Collection	first strike=First Strike	hasbro heroes sourcebook=Hasbro Heroes Sourcebook	micronauts=Micronauts	wrath of karza|micronauts wrath of karza|micronauts: wrath of karza=Micronauts: Wrath of Karza	rom=ROM	rom dire wraiths|rom: dire wraiths=Rom: Dire Wraiths	romamn|rom&mn|rom and the micronauts|rom & the micronauts=Rom & the Micronauts	rom vs transformers|shining armor|rom vs. transformers|rom vs transformers: shining armor|rom vs. transformers: shining armor=Rom vs. Transformers: Shining Armor	m.a.s.k.|m. a. s. k.|mask mobile armored strike kommand|m.a.s.k. mobile armored strike kommand|mask: mobile armored strike kommand|m.a.s.k.: mobile armored strike command=M.A.S.K.: Mobile Armored Strike Kommand	scarletts strike force|scarlett's strike force=Scarlett's Strike Force	transformers vs visionaries|transformers vs. visionaries=Transformers vs. Visionaries	requiem of the wreckers|transformers requiem of the wreckers|transformers: requiem of the wreckers=Requiem of the Wreckers	transformers unicron=Unicron	IDW (2005)}} issues{{#if: yes	*}}]]}}}}}}	Specific Discussion Subjects}}	{{#if:|[[{{{next}}}|»]]|}}	{{#if: Moving From Wikia: Arriving Leaving Complaints New Ad Policy: Ads Bookworm Database-Crash: Damage Control Central Project:Bookworm Crash Leaving Take 2 Server Move: Arriving Take 2 Relicensing: Relicensing Dealing With Vandalism: Vandalism GoBots Sister Wiki: Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki Wiki Technical Information: A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. 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The Thirteen and the other conversation we've been waiting for

Over the last few years, the Thirteen have played a major role in multiple Transformers stories. However, this prominence—combined with Hasbro's increasingly loose approach their in-universe lore—has also led to increasingly divergent portrayals of the group and its individual members.

Around 2015, we took the step of consolidating all the different incarnations of the Thirteen on one page for each, with the rationale that the characters were former multiversal singularities, and mostly shared similar backstories and personalities between incarnations. However, even at the time, this was not a completely ideal comporomise. Most notably, the various Alpha Trions were not consolidated into one, partly due to length and partly because the existence of his murderously insane evil counterpart represented a massive contradiction to the entire notion.

However, over the years, multiple authors have drastically reinterpreted the Thirteen and their story. The role of "Thirteenth Prime" has been filled by multiple contradictory characters—Optimus Prime, Zeta Prime, Sentinel Prime—and individual depictions of the Primes themselves have grown increasingly divergent. "Shattered Glass" Alpha Trion is no longer the outlier, but rather an increasing trend: for instance, Transformers One features a completely heroic Megatronus who never becomes The Fallen, a Liege Maximo that looks nothing like Loki, and an incarnation of Nexus Prime that does not seem to be a combiner. With these data points in mind—and the potential for even further divergence in the coming years—I and several other editors feel that it may be time to reorganize our Thirteen coverage, splitting them out into individual continuity family-based incarnations the way we would for stock characters like Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, etc.

However, if we do adopt this approach, some further problems would need to be solved.

• How do we handle toys? With a few exceptions like Revenge of the Fallen The Fallen, the toys of the Thirteen are clearly meant to be somewhat continuity-agnostic. Age of the Primes Solus Prime is about as faithful to her depiction in The Covenant of Primus as it is to One or any of the IDW comics in which she appears. Even if we count them as "repurposes" across multiple pages, the format of the wiki means they'd have to be based somewhere...

• FunPub stuff: The Vector Prime of "Ask Vector Prime" is clearly meant to be a version of the same Vector Prime who appeared in the Cybertron cartoon, but at the same time makes reference to off-camera events, such as a time when he and the Thirteen lived in Ancient Greece—would we make a separate "FunPub" page for the Thirteen, or try and work these events onto Unicron Trilogy pages when necessary? Other similar problems exist: "Coalescence" is a story that features a movie universe Fallen jumping into the world of Shattered Glass, and AVP established that "The Evil One" of GoBots fame, is another alternate-universe incarnation of The Fallen/Megatronus.

Feedback on this proposal is appreciated! Locoman (talk) 11:50, 7 December 2024 (EST)

From my point of view, I think as it stands right now my thoughts on the Thirteenth Prime stuff is that I absolutely understand the concerns, but for me personally it kind of falls into the same view as like, IDW Primus being Rung, which I think our current model handles fairly well. For the other Primes, I'm tempted to say that like...as it stands, there's about as much divergence there as like, Unicron as he's depicted in The Last Knight (not really shown to be aggressive beyond being called Cybertron's enemy), and as it stands right now, I don't think that's enough to say there should be a full-on split, but I do think it's worth thinking about future-proofing. And I suppose my main concern right now about pushing ahead too soon is in the event there's some fiction accompanying the Age of the Primes stuff; certainly, the fact that we're getting a toy of the Fallen with the Megatronus name but with the original Dreamwave design does make me hesitant that there might be some further consolidation of disparate elements; and I remember that last time we did this in the early 2010s was that we figured the idea of the Aligned Primes not having any connections to the others was going to be the standard going forward, which turned out not to be the case, and I figure it might be worth considering if something like that happens again. But! I am open to ideas of how to implement this if we do go for it; I think the suite options we have for Primus and Unicron work perfectly fine if we go for something like that. Just figure it's worth considering the stuff I've brought up here first. Escargon (talk) 12:35, 7 December 2024 (EST)

Right now, I'm leaning toward the camp of not splitting them out for all the reasons you've given. I look at our current situation and, while not perfect, I feel that things can be tidied up simply with some "Conceptual history" sections for the pages that need them. The aforementioned Vector Prime is a particular case not just for everything stated about him above, but because his very first Fub Pub appearance written by Forest Lee leans so heavily far into the multiversal aspect of the character that it doesn't treat him like he is a native to the Cybertron cartoon universe but rather to the whole multiverse itself. Similarly, Nexus Prime was also continuity-agnostic by his very nature from the ground up. The safest solution for splitting him out would be to classify his Fun Pub incarnation under "(Timelines)" (the previous "(Classics)" tag we had him under was bleh), but that's typically a last-resort tag we have tried to avoid in the past.

Regarding The Fallen, while he does tend to be evil in a majority of his depictions, and has had a few outlier cases where he either didn't go bad at all (TF One) or was the victim of other's manipulations (Covenant), it's implied that the majority of those evil versions weren't always evil from the start, and only went bad later. The TF One version of Megatronus never turned to the dark side, but one could argue that he was murdered before he ever would have gotten the chance to. ;-)

Regarding the Thirteenth Prime and various conflicting the depictions, we solved that issue by simply creating the "Thirteenth Prime" article to explain everything there.

You mention the situation with Alpha Trion, and I get it. The biggest reasons for simply not merging all of his pages together were that A) he was never originally meant to be one of the Thirteen since the original Dreamwave-based lore for the Thirteen had them all die before A3 was even born, and B) his Shattered Glass self. I used to be a proponent for keeping all of his versions separate because of A, but in the time since then we've had more and more depictions of him as a 13er who were all still pretty much the same as his traditional pre-Aligned depictions. If we were to merge all of his versions together, a "Conceptual history" section for him could explain the whole "Sometimes he's a 13er, sometimes he's not" situation.

BUT, there still remains his SG version, which I wouldn't feel comfortable putting on the same page as his other versions. Reaching back to the original discussion about how to handle the SG characters, I find myself still agreeing with those like Steve-o who pointed out how awkward "Continuity X: Bumblebee loves humans and does lots of funny and cute stuff to help save the universe. Continuity Y: Bumblebee loves humans and does lots of different but still funny and cute stuff to help save the universe. Shattered Glass: Bumblebee is hardcore evil and wants to kill you for no particular reason. Continuity Z: Bumblebee loves humans and does yet another set of funny and cute stuff to help save the universe." reads as a page. But, there is one thing we have nowadays that we did not have back when that original discussion was held and makes me wonder how differently the conversation might have gone if they had existed back then: Subpages. Looking at our Primus and Unicron articles, I find it to be a very fair and workable compromise that their respective SG versions are placed not on their respective main pages but as subpages for each. Doing the same for SG Alpha Trion were we to merge all of the non-SG A3's together could be a valid solution too, in my eyes. Unlike others, I don't see subpages as an annoying evil that much be dealt with and eliminated, but as a handy tool to work around tricky situations like this.

Had they even existed back then, it's very possible that ALL SG characters may have ended up on subpages for their positive polarity counterparts instead of separate pages entirely. And since then, SG has grown to expand not just beyond the original Fun Pub SG G1 continuity but to other non-G1 SG continuities, like for the Movies, Animated, and Cybertron, forcing us to create such unsightly tags as "(SG Movie)", "(SG Animated)", and "(SG Cybertron)", when subpages could have prevented that with "(Movie)/Shattered Glass" or "(Animated)/Shattered Glass" and so on.

But, I'm getting off topic. Backing up to the Thirteen, I'm for keeping the Thirteen together. In addition to what all I've said above, the Age of the Primes toys seem to be treating them as the standard or definitive versions of the Thirteen that apply for every version/universe/continuity, pulling from all across the board rather than sticking to a single depicted version of them. Prima has his Aligned body but the Sunbow Powerful Robot's head. The Fallen is just the Dreamwave design but with Aligned Megatronus's weapons from the books and RID 2015 cartoon. Micronus is likely to be based on his RID 2015 design which was itself based on the Aligned design. The statue group artwork makes Amalgamous looks more like his TF One design than his Aligned design. Vector Prime is just straight-up Cybertron Vector Prime. And Star Convoy was never one of the Thirteen in any version before now. Yet, all these disparately-sourced designs are being treated as if they all belong to the same group no matter what continuity they come from. So keeping them together as they are would just make it easier for us to not have to split hairs over which versions of which 13ers these are supposed to be when the answer would simply be "all of the above" (and we wouldn't have to put multiple entries of the same toy on, like, six or seven different characters' pages that would have to maintained equally across all of those pages). This model makes this particular version of the group feel inherently multiversal, with each member either originating from a different universe as each other, or being a multiversal hybrids comprised of different aspects of different versions of them from across the dimensions, as if Hasbro is trying to say that the AOTP versions represent *every* version of the Thirteen (minus Star Optimus, of course, since we know he's not a member in every version of this group). --Sabrblade (talk) 13:01, 7 December 2024 (EST)

As somebody who's pushed for this split for a long time, I'm obviously all for it. I feel we can easily determine where the toys go based on their main inspirations (Fallen is G1 Dreamwave, Micronus is Aligned RID, etc) are or just make the links go to the G1 pages (since G1 is effectively the wastebasket taxon of this franchise anyway). For the FunPub stuff, we can either do it Sideways style or just do it like we do for Kre-O and ancillary stuff: place them based on the characterization/design used by the work. Multiversal Vector Prime is pretty much just Cybertron Vector Prime (and the TransTech incarnation from the last portion of AVP can be split out).

I am pretty much opposed to "subpages" because that is just duplicating the parentheses system we already have just for the sake of pedantry. Saix (talk) 13:03, 7 December 2024 (EST)

Fully agree with both Escargon and Sabrblade, and their reasoning. I am biased against splits pretty much as a matter of cause, but the Thirteen in particular have for most of their history (including now, in the continuity-agnostic Age of the Primes!) been defined by their multiversal nature. I just don't think a split would be helpful. —wadapan (talk) 16:05, 7 December 2024 (EST)

So we need to wait five years of more non-multiversal stories to have this discussion again? That doesn't make sense. The COP version of the Thirteen weren't characterized as singularities in the first place, regardless; only FunPub cared about that aspect (and not even with the usual lineup we have now) and they tossed it because they realized it was an unworkable concept in this franchise and it's unlikely to ever get resurrected. It's been nearly a decade since the Shroud (the concept only existed from 2009-2015). You bring up AOTP but toylines clearly don't and never thought about those characters in terms of our organizational schema. Saix (talk) 17:19, 7 December 2024 (EST)

I think we can probably leave the most of the old content together, since it might be a mess to split them apart and much of that content is based on the Covenant mythos anyway. I feel new iterations of the Thirteen (post-POTP?) should get their own pages, like Earthspark Quintus and the One Primes (particularly Megatronus since he's quite different). Though I suppose that begs the question of what to use in the parentheses for their current pages... —BluJayWarrior (talk) 13:10, 7 December 2024 (EST)

How much of it is actually sticking to the Covenant? IDW1 had them be regular guys and some pre-Covenant stuff (notably Megatronus/Fallen) is more prominent for the character and not really compatible. Other Aligned stuff has also influenced other "continuity families", but we're not merging those articles, so I don't really see why this is different regarding the Thirteen. Saix (talk) 13:49, 7 December 2024 (EST)

I’m against splitting pages, mostly because The Thirteen haven’t had enough drastic and unique depictions of them to stop “breaking the rules” for them and give them split pages.

> The Thirteen haven’t followed the traditional convention of “every character gets a new page for that universe’s depiction”, mostly because of the whole multiversal singularity issue. Now while that concept isn’t used in fiction anymore, Age of the Primes seems to lean towards having a standard, continuity-agnostic depiction of the Thirteen from which future teams can use as the foundation of their depictions.

> Escargon and Sabrblade make some good points regarding subpages, particularly with the example of the standard “Primus = God” and Rung (G1) incarnations. Rung is a distinct and unique take on the Primus character whose backstory is incompatible with virtually every other Primus incarnation, so placing him on the same page as the Primus of the Marvel Comics, or Cybertron, or the Aligned continuity, wouldn’t seem right.

> The Covenant of Primus has been the foundation of every depiction of the Thirteen since it was released. Certain things might be modified, such as the 2005 IDW’s take on them, but even those Primes still follow certain story beats: Megatronus kills Solus, Liege Maximo is a manipulator, Prima’s role as the leader and his conflict with Megatronus, etc. One offers a depiction of the Thirteen who don’t enter a War of the Primes situation, but because we don’t really get any more information about them besides how they died, I wouldn’t say that they’re distinct enough or important enough to warrant their own pages.

> Then there’s the fact that a lot of the Primes either have had very small roles or haven’t had any real importance to the franchise in several years: Micronus’s last big role was a few episodes in Robots in Disguise and a clever tie-in to the Microspace of the 2005 IDW universe. Onyx’s only big role was in the Covenant, mostly thanks to this guy taking his place in another universe. Onyx has a few mentions in Cyberverse, but I don’t think that alone should be the reason for splitting his page up. Nexus Prime and Vector Prime haven’t really done anything notable since the Shroud. Solus Prime has seen some prominence thanks to IDW's Caminus and Power of the Primes, but those depictions again don’t stray too far from the Covenant. Amalgamous Prime has had virtually no exploration as a character. The most we’ve gotten for him is a much easier-to-look-at design in One.

> Character-wise, story-wise… they’re all still heavily based on the Covenant. Even Quintus Prime’s Earthspark depiction (with his more human-looking face) is based on his “Johnny Appleseed, made the Quintessons” lore established from the Covenant. Now if we had a full group of the Thirteen from a Shattered Glass universe or had some “What-If?” incarnations of the characters that made them very different… splitting pages would make more sense to me.

> A lot of the Thirteen have also maintained a consistent visual look to them since their introduction: all the Primes introduced in the Covenant have kept their look (Alchemist’s Lenses, Onyx’s face, Solus’ hair and color scheme), and every version of Megatronus seems to have a Decepticon insignia face, flames, and/or both. While One may have changed some color schemes (Liege Maximo missing his green), I don’t think just having a different color scheme and nothing else different warrants a new page.

> I like the idea of conceptual history sections for now, and as I said on The Fallen’s talk page, I think the beginning to his page needs a general rewrite from its “frozen in 2009” version. But until drastic new interpretations of those characters are created, if a member of the Thirteen has a single page… we should keep it as a single page --Daytonjhammon (talk) 16:33, 7 December 2024 (EST)

Splitting them would simply be a bigger headache. They're rather like Primus and Unicron where they're "bigger picture" characters (only this time around designed very specifically to be as such) and it's best to treat them as such, and really, there's not enough material to BOTHER splitting for most of them. --M Sipher (talk) 18:29, 7 December 2024 (EST)

Since it's related to this subject, it should probably also be mentioned here that there have recently been two discussions happening on the talk page for The Fallen. One about changing that article's mainpic and the other about moving the page's name to Megatronus. As of now, nothing has come out of either discussion, but I feel the results of this a bigger discussion may have an effect on either of those two smaller ones. Speaking as one who is in favor of not splitting out the Thirteen, my thoughts on these two smaller topics are that a good compromise would be to keep the article at its current name since many Megatronuses still become The Fallen, but replace the mainpic with The Fallen's Age of the Primes toy packaging art (as it depicts him in his original first body from Dreamwave but armed with his now-signature weapons from Aligned media, serving as a sort of visual overview for the character's history), along with a rewrite of his intro at the top of the page to be more all-encompassing, and the inclusion of a new "Conceptual history" section to give a proper overview of his different depictions. --Sabrblade (talk) 19:29, 7 December 2024 (EST)

I'm going to second this. I've mulled it over a little bit and while there is an argument to be made for splitting them out, I feel that 12 of the 13 primes really don't warrant it. They just haven't had as much an impact on the story and while it could be future proofing to split them, until we get prominent appearances from them I don't think it's a viable option right now. Megatronus is clearly the exception to this rule. I don't know if there's a clean solution to dealing with him at the moment. Part of me thinks maybe we should suite out the Movie and RiD versions since those are his too big appearences to date. At the bare minimum though I think we should use either his Dreamwave or Age of Primes art as the mainpic. It's his first body and I think it's influenced more designs than his RoTF design has. Ezim93 (talk) 22:57, 7 December 2024 (EST)

Erm, no. Neither his Movie or RiD sections (certainly not the latter) are big enough to warrant subpages for either. --Sabrblade (talk) 00:57, 8 December 2024 (EST)

I'm also of the opinion that a split would be a massive hassle for very little gain, but I do feel we should move The Fallen to Megatronus. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:54, 8 December 2024 (EST)

To me, renaming the page to Megatronus feels like renaming an Optimus Prime page to Orion Pax. The name was created to tell us what he was called before he became The Fallen, like how Orion Pax was what Optimus was called before he became Optimus Prime. TF One Megatronus never became The Fallen but he's an anomaly, not a new standard. As of now, the only impact TF One Megatronus has had on the brand is the official reveal video for Age of the Primes describing the very Dreamwave/Aligned-based AOTP version as "the most powerful Prime," while also putting a grim, pronounced emphasis on "The Fallen" when referring to him as "Megatronus... The Fallen". --Sabrblade (talk) 13:16, 8 December 2024 (EST)

Yes to changing The Fallen's mainpic back to the DW-style character design, huge-ass No to changing the page name; the Optimus/Orion comparison is spot-on. (And as to below... yes. The Thirteen are absolutely "set dressing that walks like a man" and best to approach them as such.) --M Sipher (talk) 20:11, 8 December 2024 (EST)

After meditating upon this a while I think I've come to agree with the broad majority above that splitting each member of the Thirteen would hurt more than it would help. The way I see it what we should be striving for here is the approach that involves the least "hallucinating data" within our organizational system, and splitting will require making a lot of different calls on what "counts" to formulate micro-characterizations for dozens of serial continuity transplants, none of which do much individually, while obfuscating the larger context they are gesturing towards. Fundamentally what we may be running up against here is that the closest most of these guys have to a true "home continuity" as we typically think of it is... the brand bible. They are set dressing that walks like a man.

To go one step further, if we want to talk future-proofing I would advocate formalizing the approach of treating them as a squad of mini-Unicrons/Primuses such that:

1) My suggestion for the issues currently plaguing the Fallen (and to a lesser degree Trion) would be to make "Conceptual History" sections more or less standard issue across the board for the Thirteen, laying out swerves in characterization and appearance as they happened rather than trying to pry them apart or smoosh them together.

2) I think it's worth revisiting merging Alpha Trion for consistency. In the decade+ since Prime cludged him into the lineup, Alpha Trion has consistently appeared as a member of the Thirteen, an insubstantial cameo, or both in pretty much every continuity he's appeared, and looking backwards I cannot help but notice that the fact that there's next to no meaningful daylight between his depictions has been the running gag of his disambiguation page since day one. If Shattered Glass remains a sticking point the Unicron/Primus style suite split approach is a reasonable compromise.

I wouldn't say I'm married to any of this and counter-counter-proposals are welcome, but that's my two cents. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 14:08, 8 December 2024 (EST)

I think just put a line at the end of the fallens intro article that says "while mostly a bad guy, there exists at least one universe (link to TF one section) where he's managed to defy all logic and be...good for once).Poliwag06 (talk) 21:53, 8 December 2024 (EST)

I'm for splitting the Thirteen, for the same reasons Saix gave. If that doesn't work, I think the versions of Alpha Trion should be merged. It's the inconsistency that drives me batty. --Boingus (talk) 22:12, 8 December 2024 (EST)

Checkpoint? (01/18/2025)

This topic seems to have gotten as much interaction as it's going to get, so to take stock before it falls off the agenda completely:

• Votes for splitting the Thirteen across the board: 4 (Locoman, Saix, BlueJayWarrior, Boingus)
• Votes against: 8 (Escargon, Sabrblade, Wadapan, Daytonjhammon, M Sipher, Exim93, Dark T Zeratul, AzimuthAcolyte)

That seems like a pretty resounding 2:1 "no," but the discussion also generated some possible compromises/suggestions for future-proofing:

• Votes for more widespread use of "Conceptual History" sections: 3 (Sabrblade, Daytonjhammon, AzimuthAcolyte)
• Votes to merge Alpha Trion (with potential SG suite) for consistency: 3 (Sabrblade, AzimuthAcolyte, Boingus)

Lastly it generated some cross-bleed from the debates on The Fallen's talk page about some updates now that we're 16 years out from his live-action film series star turn:

1) Moving the page to "Megatronus":

• For: 1 (Dark T Zeratul)
• Against: 2 (Sabrblade, M Sipher)

2) Swapping back to a Dreamwave-style mainpic:

• For: 3 (Sabrblade, Ezim93, M Sipher)

If anyone wants to try to resuscitate the mega-split speak now. If not, thoughts on the compromise proposals?

The Fallen discussion should probably return to his own page. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 13:33, 18 January 2025 (EST)

My stances remain unchanged on all of the above. --Sabrblade (talk) 13:55, 18 January 2025 (EST)

I'd be fine with splitting, but if we don't, we absolutely need to merge the Alpha Trions. There's no good justification for the others being together and him being split.

As for the Fallen... I feel the need to point out that it's not just One Megatronus that didn't use the name. EVERY toyline and piece of media in the last decade — RID15, the Prime Wars cartoons, the POTP toy, the offhand mentions in Cyberverse — have used "Megatronus", completely dropping the idea that he stopped being Megatronus and became the Fallen. It's evidently how Hasbro thinks of the character; the Studio Series toy provides plenty of evidence that they could have just called the AOTP toy "The Fallen" if they'd wanted to. -Broadside (talk) 15:51, 18 January 2025 (EST)

I am also pro-merging Alpha Trions with a SG subpage along the lines of what we do for Primus and Unicron. Escargon (talk) 16:11, 18 January 2025 (EST)

I disagree that we need to put SG Trion on a separate page. Just have his Shattered Glass section open with "In the mirror universe of Shattered Glass, Alpha Trion was..." --Broadside (talk) 16:58, 18 January 2025 (EST)

I'm pro merging Alpha Trion as well and adding conceptual history. Fallen/Megatronus discussion I'm good with taking back to his page. Ezim93 (talk) 16:20, 18 January 2025 (EST)

Here's my 5 cents. We are under no obligation to be consistent with how we treat the members of the Thirteen. If it makes sense for the characters, we can have Alpha Trions on separate pages because he has a long rich history of appearances in wide and varied media, including media in which he is not a member of the Thirteen, and we can also have Amalgamous Prime on one page because he doesn't. --abates (talk) 16:48, 18 January 2025 (EST)

I'm in agreement with this. "Consistency" is nice until it isn't, and merging Alpha's pages... isn't. I feel like that's just gonna result in a clusterfuck. "Conceptual history" is fine to add, but frankly I feel like only like... maybe only a third of the 13 would even need it. There's really not a lot to most of these. --M Sipher (talk) 22:07, 18 January 2025 (EST)

I'm curious what would be the negative result of merging Alpha Trion's pages. The thing is that they are basically all identical barring the Shattered Glass version, and even that one is functionally the same guy, just evil. RID01, Energon, Animated and ROTF Alpha Trion are all footnotes, which just leaves us with G1 Trion (sometimes of the Thirteen), Aligned Trion (of the Thirteen), Cyberverse Trion (of the Thirteen) and One Trion (of the Thirteen). Is there some complicating factor that I'm missing...? --Broadside (talk) 22:38, 18 January 2025 (EST)

Honestly, I think this just sold me on the idea of merging all the Alpha Trion pages, including the Shattered Glass version, into one page. A Conceptual History section could explain his development from sage to member of the Thirteen, with a paragraph about his Shattered Glass version. Daytonjhammon (talk) 00:02, 19 January 2025 (EST)

As I stated above, I used to be firmly against the idea of the Alpha Trions being merged, because of the facts that he wasn't originally supposed to be one of the Thirteen (a ship that has long since sailed), he was never a singularity like the other 13ers were (which no longer matters at all now since that concept was done away with), and he has a Shattered Glass version (but so too do Primus and Unicron, now, and their pages have set a good workable precedent for how to deal with SG versions of "set dressing characters" like them and the Thirteen). But now, as time goes on, the more it begins to feel like we're just keeping the Alpha Trions separate for more pedantic reasons than are necessary, especially since the AOTP toyline looks to be drawing influence from all continuities for its specific roster of the Thirteen, as if to say that the AOTP toys of the Thirteen represent *all* versions of the Thirteen (meaning AOTP Alpha Trion will represent *all* Alpha Trions).

Sipher mentioned that conceptual history sections would only benefit a small number of the Thirteen, and, well, yes, that is a true statement. But the idea wouldn't be to give all of the Thirteen conceptual history sections, just the few that would need it. And a merged. But there being only a few that would need it no less diminishes the need of those few.

However, I definitely draw the line at putting SG characters on the same webpages as their non-SG counterparts, as I go back to original discussion about that very subject and all the reasons given there (particularly from Steve-o, whom I already quoted above) for why SG characters should not share a webpage with their non-SG counterparts. --Sabrblade (talk) 00:47, 19 January 2025 (EST)

I feel like "they're all basically the same" is a charge that can be leveled at a lot of characters who are present in multiple continuity families. I'm all in favour of keeping non-entities to one page each, but Alpha Trion meets the threshold for actually having enough detail to have separate articles. --abates (talk) 16:32, 19 January 2025 (EST)

My votes: No to splitting the 13 articles, yes for conceptual history, no to merging Trion (maybe expanding his disambig a la Sideways'?), no to moving the Fallen, maybe to changing his mainpic (compare to UT or Aligned characteers with major body changes - UT generally sticks with the Armada bodies, but Aligned favours Prime bodies over WFC). BattleBlade (talk) 18:01, 18 January 2025 (EST)

I also think that it wouldn´t be appropriate to separate the pages of the thirteen and that the articles about Alpha Trion should be merged, after he become one of the 13 he has been mostly the same across all media. --MikeOsix (talk) 20:57, 18 January 2024 (EST)

My vote is that we should keep Prime pages *mostly* non-split- I do, however, think there is merit to a "Conceptual History" part, going over different variations of the characters over the Years. I originally wanted Alpha's pages to be kept apart- but after some talking, I figure it's best for him to also enjoy a conceptual history rather than a disambiguation page. (I still love Disambiguation pages though.) On The Fallen's page getting a Dreamwave-style picture: I give it a hard thumbs up. That seems to be the design Hasbro is sticking with compared to the skeleton-furnace guy from the movies. -- OptiMay Primal (talk) 21:54, 18 January 2024 (PST)

I cannot see any benefit to smushing all of the Alpha Trion articles together. Every time this happens, we get a lengthy, unfocused mess of a page that wards off attempts at maintenance because it's so large. Saix (talk) 12:16, 19 January 2025 (EST)

I'm personally against merging all the Trions, but I could be convinced if someone sandboxes a merged page first as a proof of concept. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 13:59, 24 January 2025 (EST)

At Cyberlink's suggestion, I've slapped together a rough prototype of a merged Alpha Trion suite broadly mirroring the Fallen's setup that can be seen–

• HERE

Intro etc not final, of course. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 16:27, 24 January 2025 (EST)

I like this. It's no longer or less focused than Unicron, for example. I'm still kind of dubious about the need to exclude Shattered Glass versions from these cross-continuity characters, but at least SG Trion is more substantial than SG Unicron. --Broadside (talk) 16:31, 24 January 2025 (EST)

Posting to confirm I'm in favor of this. Ezim93 (talk) 12:49, 25 January 2025 (EST)

Yeah I like it too, when so many of his incarnations are so similar the unified article feels more user friendly LenaPrime (talk) 12:57, 25 January 2025 (EST)

Adding that I think this works pretty well. - IGEBM13 (talk) 18:42, 25 January 2025 (EST)

Thought I'd stick my two cents in. I think this would work. If Unicron can have a merged page like this, then it should certainly work for Trion. Hilfam (talk) 23:44, 25 January 2025 (EST)

I've also started working on prototypes of rewrites / updates to Prima and The Fallen's pages, which can be seen...

• HERE for Prima and HERE for The Fallen.

Discussion for The Fallen should probably stay on his own talk page, but I'm linking them here since both have "conceptual history" sections I've drafted up. Daytonjhammon (talk) 13:50, 26 January 2025 (EST)

Checkpoint 2 (05/05/2025)

This definitely fell way off the agenda but there was sufficient interest that I believe it is worth circling back. Following Dayton's excellent work on Prima and the Fallen's Conceptual History section going live, the final point of order remains the prospect of merging Alpha Trion (with SG suite) to reflect his Aligned-forward characterization and bring him in line with the other 12 + 2 (Thirteen, Primus, Unicron) "man-shaped set dressing" characters.

Again, a full mock-up of this concept can be seen-

• HERE

The current tally stands at:

• Votes for merging Alpha Trion into one cross-continuity article with SG sub-page: 12 (Sabrblade, AzimuthAcolyte, Boingus, Broadside, Escargon, Ezim93, Daytonjhammon, MikeOsix, OptiMay Primal, LenaPrime, IGEBM13, Hilfam)
• Votes against: 5 (abates, M Sipher, BattleBlade, Saix, Cyberlink420)

That's overwhelming support a ways past 2:1. Does anyone care to answer a last call for comment?

Suggestions or concerns for the prototype are particularly welcome. For my part I would appreciate assistance drafting a Conceptual History section. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 14:18, 5 May 2025 (EDT)

Chipping in to reiterate that I'm in favour, though I'm unconvinced that the SG subpage is necessary. I do recognise that it's in line with how we currently treat Unicron, but like... is there anything we gain from having it be a separate page that we couldn't get from just putting "in one mirror universe, alpha trion was a real sicko!" at the top of the section? --Broadside (talk) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (EDT)

On principle alone, I'm against putting SG characters on the same pages as their non-SG counterparts, no matter what. The day we make such allowance for just one of them is the day we open the floodgates for potentially doing that for any and all SG characters. --Sabrblade (talk) 19:54, 6 May 2025 (EDT)

The (SG) system is simple. What exactly does messing with it accomplish? Saix (talk) 20:28, 8 May 2025 (EDT)

See, my understanding was not that SG characters are "special exceptions", it's that we treat Shattered Glass as its own continuity family (and likewise SG Animated, et al). It's not "messing with" the system to put the SG version of a character on a cross-continuity family page for that character. --Broadside (talk) 16:53, 13 May 2025 (EDT)

It's messing with what Thylacine mentions for the sake of insisting on making categorization exceptions for the Thirteen. It's not useful to either editor or reader, especially if we're going to do the pointless lateral move that is "/Shattered Glass" anyway. (SG) is straightforward and easy to parse as opposed to "here's the explicitly negative AU guy buried here because arbitrary wiki reasons". Saix (talk) 18:42, 13 May 2025 (EDT)

Looks like it doesn't matter anymore, but the difference between SG and non-SG material - the whole fact that SG exists to be an irreconcilable opposite to G1 - is more fundamental and important than the sum total of all appearances and history of at least 10 of the 13. We should not be wiping away important conceptual distinctions for the sake of unimportant asterisk characters who basically only ever existed in a list. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 16:59, 13 May 2025 (EDT)

International Sightings

So, as of late, mentions of "toy appeared in (non-US country) without prior announcement" type lines have been getting purged from the wiki. This makes me wonder: am I allowed to even mention them anymore when a new toy appears somewhere? I'm not really sure why these relatively harmless information lines are getting removed, nor am I really a fan of it, but if I can't mention them anymore I will happily oblige.Poliwag06 (talk) 21:04, 7 January 2025 (EST)

They're being removed because "toy first showed up at a random store in Asia" is not useful information. That's how toy retail has worked for decades. Hasbro deigning to announce some product doesn't make it the standard. Saix (talk) 22:57, 7 January 2025 (EST)

Oh, ok, I'll keep that in mind from now on.Poliwag06 (talk) 23:11, 7 January 2025 (EST)

First revealed at (some regular online update)

On a similar note to the international sightings, what do people think of "toy was first revealed in Hasbro Instagram post / Fans First Friday / Pulse livestream of whatever date," etc.? We note this constantly, because it's another fact to include about a just-announced toy nobody owns yet. A year later it looks unimportant. Is this something we like and value, or more of a space-filing habit? --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 07:34, 8 January 2025 (EST)

I think it's a lot of blather, but at least it's documenting Hasbro marketing as opposed to random retail appearances. Saix (talk) 09:25, 8 January 2025 (EST)

I'm lukewarm at best on 'em. But often these announcements are followed up almost immediately by pre-orders opening up through official channels, and that feels a bit more... noteworthy. --M Sipher (talk) 12:31, 8 January 2025 (EST)

Seems pretty relevant to me! There's value in preserving a toy's history, after all. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 10:14, 6 April 2025 (EDT))

Update Navigation

Should the Navigation sidebar be changed to replace Legacy with Age of the Primes or should we wait a bit?--CyclonustheWarrior (talk) 20:49, 2 February 2025 (EST)

Good question. I think we could change it now since almost all of wave 1 is out at retail over in Asia, but I’ll wait for someone higher than me to make the final decision lol - IGEBM13 (talk) 23:10, 5 February 2025 (EST)

Adding a "Transformers in [Country name]" section to country articles

So, by some weird coincidence, a lot of my edits in these past months have involved expanding on the quirks of how individual aspects of the Transformers brand were represented in countries like Brazil, Argentina, Greece, and Portugal - however; something that I've noticed is that there's usually no comprehensive summary of this information in the actual pages we have for those countries, with most or all of it being restricted to the individual articles regarding those things instead (for instance; Argentina had a whole three companies that produced Transformers toys with Antex, Comando Toys, and Lynsa, but none of them are even mentioned in Argentina's page!). As such, and in the spirit of making our wiki more international, I propose that we add a small section to every country page specifically regarding the presence of the Transformers brand within it.

Some information that could go into these sections, if available (naturally, not everything here needs to be mentioned):

• When Transformers media first premiered in the country
• When Transformers toys first released in the country
• Previous releases of pre-Transformers in the country, if any (e.g.; Italy's Trasformer, the UK's Convertors, Finland's Diaclone, etc.)
• Brands that might have made toys or merchandise for Transformers in the country, if any (e.g.; Estrela in Brazil, IGA in Mexico, GiG in Italy, El Greco in Greece, etc.)
• Notable figures, variants, and/or entire toylines that are exclusive to the country, if any (obviously, a fully comprehensive list would be difficult for a country like Japan, but it seems feasible for others here.)
• Transformers media that's unique to the country, if any (again; it would be hard to form a comprehensive list for Japan or the US, but it might not be too difficult elsewhere.)
• Peculiar quirks and factoids regarding the distribution of Transformers toys in the country, if any (e.g.; Galaxy Shuttle releasing in Italy, Star Saber releasing in Portugal, Spain's translated G1 blister cards, Sonokong's many odd releases of Transformers toys in South Korea, etc.)
• Transformers-connected artists that were born in the country (e.g.; Brazil's Marcelo Matere, Spain's José Avilés, etc.)
• Perhaps some notable aspects of the fandom in the country (e.g., fan organizations, conventions - whether they're official or unofficial - etc.)

Editing these sections could also make for a pretty fun multinational effort: certainly, Transformers fans from all over the world have pretty unique knowledge about the brand in their regions that's undocumented until now, and it would be pretty cool for them to visit the pages for their respective countries and see a section that basically invites them to add that knowledge. If this idea seems acceptable then I would be happy to move ahead with introducing the section to some of the countries that I'm most familiar with (mostly in Europe and Latin America) - let me know what everyone else thinks! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 10:07, 6 April 2025 (EDT))

I like this idea! I think it’ll be really helpful for both readers and the site’s general organization to have information about international Transformers products and media on their respective countries’ pages. I’m not too well-versed in the foreign aspects of the brand outside of Japan, but I do know one piece of information we can add to Russia’s page is that Masterforce was the first show to air there :D - IGEBM13 (talk) 10:47, 6 April 2025 (EDT)

I had no idea about that, how interesting! Hopefully more people can give the go-ahead to this. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 11:04, 6 April 2025 (EDT))

This strikes me as a proposal with a lot potential if we can get enough manpower behind it. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 17:00, 6 April 2025 (EDT)

I've made versions of this proposed section for the Portugal, Spain, and Brazil pages, and posted them on my sandbox. Any thoughts would be welcome! Also, shouldn't we maybe add the country flags to their respective pages? The Wikipedia SVGs are on public domain, so I guess we could just import those. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 09:43, 7 April 2025 (EDT))

I like the way these early write-ups look, it could prove very interesting. Though we should only add the country flags if they appeared in fiction, as we do with the Soviet Union or United States of America. Otherwise it's just not important. Every country has a flag, you don't need to come here to look at them or find out their capital cities, populations, national birds, etc. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 11:01, 7 April 2025 (EDT)

I mean, if we're also to discuss the "meta" details of Transformers in the country - meaning that the pages are no longer restricted to just fiction - then I think it makes sense to at least have a country flag up on the opening paragraph, no? I'm not saying we need to add an Wikipedia-like infobox with the capital and population count and whatever else, but if we also have stuff like logos for companies in their respective pages then it makes sense to at least have what's basically the largest and most important international identifier that a country has attached to a page about it. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 11:29, 7 April 2025 (EDT))

Given how there seem to be no objections to this project, I hope that it's fine to begin adding these sections to their respective pages during this weekend. I have added entries for Argentina, Italy, and Greece to my sandbox, so, together with the other three I previously shared; that will be six "The Transformers franchise in X country" sections coming from me - hopefully others will also be interested in adding similar sections to the pages of whatever countries they're most familiar with! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 18:37, 11 April 2025 (EDT))

I think the names could be simplified to "Transformers in X". Saix (talk) 19:51, 11 April 2025 (EDT)

That was actually close to the previous name I had in this topic ("The Transformers in X") before renaming it because I thought it could be a little ambiguous, haha - but actually, I think you're right, "Transformers in Brazil" / "Transformers in Greece" / etc. does sound better and I guess all the ambiguities are kinda cleared up in context of the contents of the sections themselves! "Transformers in X" it shall be then, I've now again renamed this topic accordingly. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 20:06, 11 April 2025 (EDT))

Yeah, it could be an ambiguous statement by itself, but we're not making "Transformers in Brazil" for all the fictional times Transformers characters appeared in Brazil because that's already covered by Brazil itself. Saix (talk) 20:29, 11 April 2025 (EDT)

Ayo, I posted the first batch of "Transformers in X" sections a few days ago in the Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Brazil, and Argentina pages! There are still way more countries that need a similar level of development and since I won't be able to do all of them alone, I wanted to highlight at least the most important ones in the hopes that maybe other users will have an interest in working on them. So, here are the pages that most urgently need a "Transformers in X" section (plus some of the things they should mention):

• Japan, obviously: The birth of the transforming robot as a Japanese cultural product (see Yonezawa and some of the later transforming robot toys leading up to Takara's Cosmo Countach and eventually the Diaclone Car Robots), the country's transition from Diaclone to Transformers, the introduction of the original show to Japan, a brief mention of the original media and toylines that were only released there, an assessment of the popularity of the franchise in Japan relative to other 'giant robot'-centric media like Gundam and NGE (Also, I've noticed that there is already a small "non-fiction" section that briefly touches on the importance of Japan to the Transformers: it could be used as a starting basis, and I guess that it also suggests someone already had the idea for a similar wiki-project!)
• The United States, also quite obviously: Brief summarization of the birth and sustained popularity of the Transformers brand in America, the most prominent retail exclusives that were only launched in U.S. stores, BotCon and all the other big fan conventions

* United Kingdom: Received a pair of pre-Transformers toylines with the Grandstand Convertors and Tandy's Galactic Man, the UK Marvel Transformers comic, large conventions like TFNation and TFUKcon (Done!)

• France: Received a pre-Transformers toyline with Ceji / Joustra releasing Diaclone, Orli Jouet's Robotrack, later Joustra-made G1 Transformers toys, original cartoon had a pretty funky unique theme song, major national toy company Majorette would briefly become a Transformers licensee in the 2000s
• Finland: Received a pre-Transformers toyline with Takara directly releasing Diaclone, "black Tracks" was unique to it (and later homaged with Loudpedal)
• China: Hasbro factories, the Chinese G1 reissue toyline, the commercial success of Age of Extinction and how it brought about a sharp rise in the popularity of Transformers across the country, Nezha
• South Korea: The unusual line-ups of Young Toys and Sonokong, the mystery of ToonTown
• Mexico: IGA and their unique variants of G1 figures
• Venezuela (which somehow doesn't exist yet despite already having an in-fiction mention?): Rubiplas made some unique Mini-Vehicles

* Peru: Lynsa released multiple unique Mini-Vehicles in both countries, Museo Transformers (Done!)

• Chile: Also received Lynsa Mini-Vehicles
• Vietnam: Major manufacturing hub for Transformers toys (Work in progress)
• Germany: GAMA's "Trans Robot" (pre-Transformers Omega Supreme), had the biggest Transformers convention in continental Europe until it dissolved not too long ago

On an unrelated note, check out these fancy new GoBoxes down below! If anyone wants to do more in this style (quirky collage of country flag, plus national iconography, plus a Transformer toy that's emblematic of that specific country in some way) then that'd be pretty sweet! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 17:47, 16 April 2025 (EDT))

Hey, I noticed that a lot of your claims aren't really sourced, it would be nice if you could cite your sources for us. Wildstrike (talk) 08:01, 21 April 2025 (EDT)

For sure! A lot of what's been added to these pages isn't cited because it is already discussed at greater length in their respective articles (and usually cited in said articles) - nonetheless; I will go ahead and add a more extensive round of sources soon. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 12:54, 21 April 2025 (EDT))

Great! Remember to post about that here when it happens. Wildstrike (talk) 13:45, 21 April 2025 (EDT)

All done, I've provided as many citations for whatever information's more obscure or not as well-documented in the English web as I could! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 16:21, 21 April 2025 (EDT))

Thank you! I appreciate it, though I have noticed that your source about Portuguese people seeing Star Convoy on retail is only available to members of the Facebook group. I understand that information for things like this is hard to come by so if can't change it it's alright but it would be great if you could list a publicly available source instead. Wildstrike (talk) 08:58, 22 April 2025 (EDT)

Oops, I didn't realize that Transformers Portugal was private on Facebook - but let this not be a problem, because I've just added a translated screenshot to that citation instead! Although I must also add that, unfortunately, I don't know how to really cite the later portion of that trivia - that Star Convoy is also really common on the Portuguese secondary market - because this is basically the product of my own personal experience of living in Portugal and seeing at least four loose Star Convoys on the Portuguese secondary market in the past couple of years across various occasions, all of them being the original version with the white trailer rather than the later reissue (thus suggesting that they come from the aforementioned retail distribution), and all of them being sold for really cheap prices rounding just ~20-40 euros from people who clearly did not know about this being an unusual toy (I got one myself one circa ~2022!). It's just that I frankly didn't know how to cite this in the page (Would "This editor can attest to seeing an inordinate amount of Portuguese Star Convoy copies on the secondary market" be too anecdotal of a reference to have?), so... There's that. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 13:04, 22 April 2025 (EDT))

Don't worry, the fist citation should be enough, now's the time to move on to the rest of the countries. I'm a bit busy at the moment but I might be able to take on the UK write up. Wildstrike (talk) 13:53, 22 April 2025 (EDT)

Sweet, I'll be excited to see what you write up! Tell us here when you do :) (FortressMaxxing (talk) 13:58, 22 April 2025 (EDT))

I made a first draft of the UK write-up at my sandbox here. It is not at all done I'm passing this through the people to make sure I didn't get anything wrong, and to hear out any suggestions. Also I didn't mention the Tandy's Galactic Man figure because it doesn't seem to be exclusive to to the UK. Wildstrike (talk) 11:14, 26 April 2025 (EDT)

Hey, it's good, short but very well-cited! I do think Galactic Man merits at least a brief one-line mention since apparently the UK was the only other territory beyond the U.S. where it was released in (and also the UK Galactic Man might be slightly different, per how the pre-TF page describes him as "almost identical"?), but otherwise, I have no disagreement with the information presented here. Very curious to see how you're gonna expand on that draft! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 18:46, 27 April 2025 (EDT))

Okay, I did a bit of research and according to the Astro Magnum blog the Tandy version of Galactic Man has slightly different packaging, different stickers, and is made of materials more resistant to the yellowing prevalent in the Radio Shack versions of the toy. I'll be sure to edit the draft when I have time. Also, I found about an official transformers store at the Battersea power station which I plan on incorporating at some point. Wildstrike (talk) 11:49, 28 April 2025 (EDT)

Ooohh, here's a pretty cool thing that I found out which definitely should be added to the Peru page: there's a mall with a Transformers toy museum within it, and apparently it's been in operation since 2020! It even features a display specifically for Transformers stuff made in Peru, which I think would be a great photographic addition to the article :) (FortressMaxxing (talk) 20:36, 27 April 2025 (EDT))

I've finally expanded my write-up (link here), and would like to receive comment on it if possible. As for the Transformers store I mentioned above, I'm not quite sure how to incorporate it into the rest of the article and am debating just leaving it in the notes section. Wildstrike (talk) 12:06, 30 May 2025 (EDT)

Hey, sorry for taking so long to review it but it's good! I think the Transformers store can be added as its own small (even if one-line) paragraph in the section, no need to throw it all the way down to notes when it's a definitely pretty relevant to the history of Transformers in the UK. Regardless, I'd say it's time to go live with that section! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 00:24, 12 June 2025 (EDT))

It's finally live baby! As you may have noticed, I decided to expand the section a little bit more and mention some of the other British people that have worked on Transformers over the years as well as BotCon Europe 1999, I hope you're happy with all the changes. — Wildstrike (talk) 15:05, 12 June 2025 (EDT)

Per recent edits, I'm scratching out the UK and Peru pages off the list, as they now also have proper "Transformers in [Country]" sections (great job on the UK one by the way, it's pretty extensive and rich in information and I feel like I learned quite a few new things with it!). I also added Germany and Vietnam to the list, so if any TF fans from those nationalities are around to see this some help in filling those out wold be greatly appreciated! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 08:22, 18 June 2025 (EDT))

Size of this page

Could someone archive the last year on this page? It's getting ridiculously long and is hard to scroll through. Hilfam (talk) 19:48, 15 April 2025 (EDT)

Done. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 20:25, 15 April 2025 (EDT)

ToonTown / Korean Transformers that might or might not be bootlegs

Hey, so... What do we do about this, and this, and this, and this? It basically seems like there's a massive ambiguity as to whether or not these toys are bootlegs, and while at least one of them (see the recently-edited "Globo" section on the knockoff page) has distinct bootleg origins, it's also worth remembering that there is at least one known case of a bootleg being later rebranded into an official Transformers toy, so... Maybe this is not much of an indicator?

In the replies to that first tweet, there's a person who says that "Hasbro's legal stance is that if it has their copyright on the box, it is an official product. This is what they've told me in the past when inquiring about other products". Assuming that this is the case, and given that all of these have a Hasbro copyright on their packaging despite how genuinely weird they are, should we add them to their respective character pages, as well as maybe creating a separate page for ToonTown as a Transformers-associated company? The Soundwave and Starscream Transformers Gum tabs already mention their ToonTown releases, so it seems like it kind of follows to add the others, no? I've left them a mention on the knockoff page as of now, but it would be good to get a final decision as to where exactly they should stay on this wiki. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 21:58, 19 April 2025 (EDT))

Decades ago, Raksha wrote that the Toon Town stuff had been released in both South Korea and Taiwan (https://web.archive.org/web/20080917123934fw_/http://www.plumed-serpent.com/swartifacts.html). Added to what you wrote above, I believe that is the sum of all the knowledge we have on the issue, so it would be hard to write an article about it. I agree that since we have the Soundwave and Starscream stuff, the other confirmed releases are fair game to include too. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 15:18, 7 May 2025 (EDT)

Here's another one, this time not saying Toon Town, still showing the "real" logos and symbols, and said by its owner to be a knockoff: https://toy-wizards.com/2019/03/16/super-rare-korean-transformers-toys-at-tf-con-and-the-conspiracy-theory-behind-them/?amp I'm really drawing a blank on Toon Town and it is possible we will never get enough verified info to be worth an article here. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 18:53, 7 May 2025 (EDT)

One more source for now: http://fredsworkshop.com/vkorea.html --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 18:57, 7 May 2025 (EDT)

Argh, another, and with even more links at the bottom, and were no closer to a conclusive truth. http://fredsworkshop.com/vkorea5.html --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 19:05, 7 May 2025 (EDT)

For what it's worth, I think it'd be good to have a page laying out the ambiguity of the matter, explaining what we know and how hard to verify it all is. Sorta like the unknown Generation 1 animation studios. --Broadside (talk) 19:35, 7 May 2025 (EDT)

Yeah, I'd agree with this. --M Sipher (talk) 20:45, 7 May 2025 (EDT)

Seconding this, it seems like we have more than enough to at least create an article about this weird company that explains the ambiguity. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 01:15, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

Alright, as per the above discussion, the ToonTown article is now up! I didn't go over every source mentioned here yet and therefore still haven't added every ToonTown-branded figure to it (and neither to the character pages, the currently existing wikilinks just to go their broader toy sections for now), but hopefully this is a good start. Would love to see your contributions to this page, if you have any to give! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 09:09, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

Update, the remaining ToonTown toys and merchandise that I could find has also been added. Turn out to be a shorter affair than expected! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 09:53, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

Thank you for setting this up so quickly! I am doing my best to state very clearly that these might or might not be legit, that if they're knockoffs they aren't like your typical ones... The last thing I'd ever want would be for this wiki to give people the sense that fake stuff was real, but we can present the nebulous case and leave it to readers to judge. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 10:58, 8 May 2025 (EDT)

All good! This is just such an interesting case that it does really feel like it needs to be in the wiki insofar as we don't know whether or not they're fake. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 11:07, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

Hey, Google Lens led me to the discovery of another ToonTown oddity and I'd love some community help in finding out more about it before it's added into the article: This Optimus Prime model kit doesn't appear to be based on any Kabaya / Transformers Gum kit that I know of (and the Transformers Gum section on the Optimus merchandise page says that his ToonTown kit comes as a pack-in with Starscream rather than being a standalone like this one), and in fact; he actually looks to be fairly sizable and complex compared to the usual Kabaya affair. On this listing for the same kit, you can zoom in and see what seems to be the usual ToonTown / 3D Licensing International markings, but most importantly; both of those links identify him as being made by a company called "Midam Industry" which even seems to have its own unique logo on the upper right corner of the toys (albeit it's pretty difficult to make out with how low-res all these pictures are), but that I can't find anything about them on the web. Does anyone know more about this Midam Industry Optimus, as well as maybe potentially being aware of other kits from the same series? Cheers! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 16:46, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

After searching for a little while, I believe that this is, in fact, the only Transformers kit released by Midam Industry (although it has a handful of variants!), thus; it - as well as a Midam Industry entry - has been added to their respective pages. I've taken the liberty to classify it as a toy rather than a piece of merchandise since it is, for the standards of a Transformers model kit, actually a fairly elaborate and fully-transforming model that doesn't really seem to count as "merchandise" in the same way that Transformers Gum stuff does (it doesn't even come with any food!) - hopefully others will be in agreement on this. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 19:16, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

And, just as I thought I was done with editing the ToonTown page for the day, I realized that the packaging for these kits advertises other kits, even though no pictures of those seem to be available. Aw well, duty calls... (FortressMaxxing (talk) 19:31, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

Proposing a "The Transformers (Latin American toylines)" page

So the title is self-explanatory, but basically; I've noticed that our Generation 1 navbox is missing the many, many Latin American Transformers G1 toylines like those produced by Estrela, Antex, Lynsa, IGA, etc. Since there might be way too many for them to all to be individually listed in the navbox, and since we already have the "The Transformers (toyline)" (for the US toyline), "The Transformers (European toyline)", "Generation 1 (Japanese toyline)", and "The Transformers (Chinese toyline)" pages all on the navbox, shouldn't we also make a "The Transformers (Latin American toylines)" page where we list all of the known releases from the various Latin American toylines, with the eventual addition of some "Main article" tags for the manufacturers of each of those toylines? (FortressMaxxing (talk) 19:49, 24 April 2025 (EDT))

I don't think the toyline or name was consistent across Latin America, so it would be more "Generation 1 toylines in Latin America"?

That's fair, it is true that most of them removed the 'The' prefix and were usually just called Transformers. Since we don't use the The Transformers name for the Japanese toyline page then it does make sense to also not use it in this instance. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 22:33, 24 April 2025 (EDT))

Page has been made! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 17:17, 25 April 2025 (EDT))

Free Comic Book Day Worst Bot Ever preview

I know it’s standard procedure not to create articles for comic issues until the issue actually comes out, even if a small preview is officially released online. But I’m wondering if the Ballpoint preview issue should be an exception? It is just the online page preview Skybound put out a few months ago (I believe with a couple new pages), but since it is an officially released physical comic issue that new fans will be picking up and wanting to research, I figure there’s an argument to create the article now with what we know and simply update it when the graphic novel proper comes out. For now, the article would cover what’s in the FCBD issue, and when it comes out proper we’d add to/replace it with a full synopsis and include a note about how the first 16 pages were released on FCBD. Thoughts? Cylasbreakdown (talk) 16:58, 3 May 2025 (EDT)

Shattered Glass and cross-continuity-family pages

Felt like this was worth being discussed in its own section, so: at present, Unicron, Primus and Alpha Trion all have dedicated "Shattered Glass" subpages suited out. They're unique in this respect; every other page for concepts that span multiple continuity families keep the Shattered Glass versions on the same page as everything else. A good example is Spark; even though Embers have a different name and are supposedly fundamentally different in the mirror universe, they still share a page. If we're going to treat Unicron, Primus and the Thirteen like cross-continuity concepts, rather than how we treat most characters, then I don't think we should make an exception to that for Shattered Glass.

To be clear, this is NOT proposing that we merge all Shattered Glass characters into their G1 counterparts. My position is that Shattered Glass is its own continuity family, and so we keep their pages separate, and I don't think there's something special about Shattered Glass that makes it an exception to what we're doing with the cross-continuity pages. Input would be appreciated. --Broadside (talk) 16:52, 14 May 2025 (EDT)

I agree. Especially because Primus and Unicron have about a paragraph's worth of information on them each. Locoman (talk) 18:21, 14 May 2025 (EDT)

SG is different enough that the character pages should be separated somehow. Otherwise it’d be jarring for those unfamiliar with SG to have the one batshit crazy evil Alpha Trion in and amongst all the nice ones. Personally, I’m on the same boat as Sabrblade back up in the Thirteen discussion from a few months ago. I think suite pages are a useful tool, not a necessary evil. It’s somewhat subjective, but I can see suite pages used in this way for other cross-continuity concepts where one universe diverges far enough from the norm. Cylasbreakdown (talk) 18:49, 15 May 2025 (EDT)

Moreso than one crazy evil Star Saber in and among all the nice ones? I don't think you're giving readers enough credit, frankly. If we opened the section "In one mirror universe, Alpha Trion was not a kindly mentor, but a cruel manipulator" I don't think anyone would think twice. --Broadside (talk) 22:25, 15 May 2025 (EDT)

Touché. Cylasbreakdown (talk) 02:04, 16 May 2025 (EDT)

I was waiting to weigh in until the Alpha Trion merge was fully complete, but I now feel comfortable saying this strikes me as basically reasonable, both conceptually and in terms of the small volume of material involved. The Fallen's Shattered Glass content is already folded into his main page by necessity, after all. I do think people might feel less skittish if we more clearly telegraphed that the 13+2 were unique character/concept article hybrids not to be used as precedent down the food chain. Maybe something like:

• Category:Concept-Characters
• With a description like, "These subjects act as facets of the Transformers brand's baseline worldbuilding first and characters in their own right second. For the defunct fictional concept riffing on this phenomenon, see multiversal singularity."

Is that anything? --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 18:20, 26 May 2025 (EDT)

I like that idea. - IGEBM13 (talk) 20:52, 26 May 2025 (EDT)

Seems like an excellent idea to me! --Broadside (talk) 00:07, 27 May 2025 (EDT)

Yeah, seems alright for now. However, I do think it's worth having some kind of plan in place in case a concept-character winds up getting expanded on in the future. — Wildstrike (talk) 04:50, 2 June 2025 (EDT)

I do like the category idea. --Sabrblade (talk) 18:51, 5 June 2025 (EDT)

Last call for objections before I go ahead with this? --Broadside (talk) 16:01, 12 June 2025 (EDT)

I think there's an exception to be made for Alpha Trion, as the SG page is pretty long, and still incomplete, but otherwise, yeah; was surprised by how short SG Primus and Unicron's articles are. Alientraveller (talk) 16:24, 12 June 2025 (EDT)

It's not very long compared to the rest of the page, especially considering the toys are already on Trion's toys page. I feel like if we were gonna split a section off for length reasons it'd be Generation 1. --Broadside (talk) 20:55, 12 June 2025 (EDT)

Interwiki link request

Having reached another milestone in my ongoing project to document the non-Transformers back-up strips printed in the Marvel UK book, I'd like to request that tfuk.app (https://tfuk.app/wiki/$1) gets added to the interwiki table. Thanks. TheLastGherkin (talk) 11:11, 20 May 2025 (EDT)

Goddamn, this is an incredible amount of work: more than being added to the interwiki table, it frankly feels worthy of being pinned into the "sister wikis" section on the opening page. Great job! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 12:08, 20 May 2025 (EDT))

Seconding Fortress on front page sister wiki status, frankly. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 12:31, 20 May 2025 (EDT)

Thirded on adding it to the sister wikis list, that’s amazing. - IGEBM13 (talk) 16:07, 20 May 2025 (EDT)

Fourthing! -- DannyBoy (talk) 10:19, 21 May 2025 (EDT)

That seems eminently reasonable: The Transformers UK Appendix --abates (talk) 16:15, 20 May 2025 (EDT)

Thank you! TheLastGherkin (talk) 17:32, 20 May 2025 (EDT)

Skybound’s Marvel compendium edits

So I’ve got Skybound’s The Transformers Compendium Volume 1 in hand and am reading it. I was under the impression that Skybound was, for the most part, just using IDW’s Classics reprint with maybe some polish here and there, but comparing Skybound’s version to the wiki notes about IDW classics edits, there are actually several changes from those that are going to need to be noted on each issue’s article. (For instance, the Wheeljack/Hoist panel comparison on I, Robot-Master! has a new color scheme to add to it.) Are we gonna want to make a new section on each article underneath the “Classics edits” one? Are we gonna want to wait until the Kickstarter-exclusive versions come out so we can do it all at once? (I’m just talking about differences I’ve noticed while skimming articles; I imagine there are lots more. This is the first time I’ve read the comic and thus I don’t have originals/IDW reprints to directly compare to. Just something I wanted to bring to your guys’ attention.) Cylasbreakdown (talk) 02:04, 1 June 2025 (EDT)

Making a new section under "Classics Edits" seems like the best move. As for the second question, I feel it would be best if we started making note of the changes now so that there will be less work to when the Kickstarter exclusives do release. — Wildstrike (talk) 04:58, 2 June 2025 (EDT)

Continuity of origin listings?

I happened to see the Sentius Magnus and Sentius Malus, and that sent me looking to see if there were any other new characters unique to Earth Wars. When I couldn't find any such listing, I realized I don't think we have any real way to identify original characters by their original continuity. Might it make sense to have, say, categories for brand-new characters that originated in each continuity? i.e. "Earth Wars original characters" or "IDW 2005 original characters" or "Marvel comics original characters", etc? Or, if not categories, some way of compiling that information?
Also, to be clear, I wouldn't consider characters that began as toys to be original to whatever fiction they first appeared in; this would just be for the likes of the aforementioned Sentius twins, or Xaaron, or Devcon, or Tarn. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:29, 16 June 2025 (EDT)

I think that would be a good idea, and very helpful organization-wise. (Also, you’re correct in that there are no other TFEW-original characters beyond maybe SB Optimus Prime and SB Megatron.) - IGEBM13 (talk) 09:09, 16 June 2025 (EDT)

I feel that would be unnecessary, fans can find it out by looking at the work page. Vrung (talk) 16:53, 16 June 2025 (EDT)

Unless there's a way I missed, the only way to "figure it out" by looking at the work page is to individually check the pages for every single listed character appearance to see if they've ever appeared anywhere else. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:33, 16 June 2025 (EDT)

Concept characters and sorting by continuity family

Based on discussions above, I've implemented Category:Concept characters to cover things like the Thirteen and Primus and Unicron. However, I've noticed that these pages seem to have been rearranged so they aren't sorted by continuity family, except in the case of the movie and Aligned families? I gather that it's to "preserve the flow of conceptual development", but that seems silly when we have "conceputal history" sections on the relevant characters. Other concept pages (e.g. Cybertron are sorted by family, so this just seems unintuitive. --Broadside (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

I agree; we've always tried to sort concepts and ideas by continuity family and it's more confusing if we start arbitrarily enforcing this standard on some pages but not on others. Locoman (talk) 20:00, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

I concur that how we've been organizing big pages like this by continuity family makes sense, especially if they have "Conceptual history" sections. Like, it's weird to jump around from a G1 section, to a Beast Era section, to a UT section, and then back to a G1 section, then to a Movie section, then Aligned, then back to another G1, then back to another Movie, then back to G1 again, then Cyberverse, then G1 again, then another Movie, and so forth. Just let the "Conceptual history" sections do their job. And if there isn't one, then, well... why not make one? They only enhance each article that has one. I'd say an article like "Cybertron (planet)" could definitely benefit from a good "Conceptual history" section of its own. --Sabrblade (talk) 20:00, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

Agreed on all fronts. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 20:20, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

I think if we're going to have cross-continuity pages for whatever reason, because the "continuity family" thing isn't working... why then organize the pages that way? "G1 continuity family" is a unit of wiki organization, not a Real Thing either narratively or creatively, unlike Aligned or Movieverse. That feels like trying to have our cake and eat it—either we're organizing things by continuity family or we aren't. IDW Megatronus is more linked to Aligned Megatronus than Dreamwave Fallen. Why does it make sense to put IDW and Dreamwave together in terms of the character? Forget arbitrary wiki categorization for a minute and ask what's the intended throughline there. Are we presenting the character's evolution in a logical way or are we simply sticking to continuity families because arbitrary wiki organization? (Also an excessive amount of tiny headers as you force them all down one level looks awful.) Saix (talk) 21:00, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

I don't buy that "movieverse" is any less arbitrary than "G1 continuity family". None of the Alpha Trion entries sorted under "movie continuity family" have anything to do with each other. I would argue that using continuity families for these pages provides a reasonable measure of organisation to make it easier to find specific fiction entries rather than having to scroll through the entire history of the character. --Broadside (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

Not to beat the dead horse, but that's why we had separate pages in the first place. Movieverse fiction uses the movies as the fundamental springing board for their narrative (and is especially relevant to the Fallen). G1 does not have that and is purely organized by aesthetics and convenience. Why are Cyberverse, EarthSpark, and Wild King not "G1" while IDW1 is? Arbitrary convenience. Which is fine, but it still drills in the point that it's not a meaningful categorization narratively or creatively, especially if we're going to eschew it at the article level regardless. Saix (talk) 21:51, 18 June 2025 (EDT

I simply think we should be consistent about how we sort fiction sections within "concept" articles. To use Cybertron (planet) as an example again, should we no longer organise the fiction entries on that page by continuity family? If you think so, fine, but I think that's a poor idea. --Broadside (talk) 21:55, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

That page seems to eschew the Fiction header in the first place (which does take care of my tiny header complaint, I suppose), so it's not quite consistent to begin with. But I don't really consider location and character pages to have the same considerations; Cybertron is pretty much the same across all continuities (backstory varies, yes, but mechanical homeworld of the Transformers is always the status quo) while characters are always shifting, changing, and bringing forward new ideas into next iterations. (Gun to my head, yes, I would prefer chronological, but planet articles are not a priority to me.) Saix (talk) 22:09, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

Right, but the thing about the Thirteen et al is that they don't have the same considerations as other characters, so we treat them the same as other cross-continuity concept articles. I don't think they should have their own unique format that's the only thing on the wiki that completely eschews continuity families for organisation. --Broadside (talk) 22:59, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

Two questions: 1. Are we talking about just the organization of Thirteen/Primus/Unicron pages or across the board, new standard for all pages? 2. For either side (organize by continuity family vs organize by chronology/release date), are there examples of pages with either formatting that can serve as proof of concepts or visuals that show why that specific way is the better one? Daytonjhammon (talk) 21:15, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

Bit of an aside but is there a different or more distinct category name we could use? For me and most tf fans I know "Concept characters" brings to mind "concept art" characters, aka unused designs and the like. I think renaming it to "Cross-continuity concept characters" or something similar would make it clearer. —BluJayWarrior (talk) 22:39, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

That would be fine by me, yeah. --Broadside (talk) 22:59, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

Yeah, this was the problem that jumped out at me when I first saw the term proposed. Some other suggestions: continuity-agnostic, pan-continuity, meta-continuity, conceptual, lore, mythological, cosmological, multiversal, archetypal, foundational. I don't have a strong preference, just throwing these out there. —wadapan (talk) 12:54, 19 June 2025 (EDT)

conceptual, lore, and mythological feel a bit too... intangible ig? multiversal is way too close to multiversal singularity imo. I'd say continuity-agnostic, pan-continuity or meta-continuity would all be good. (personally leaning towards meta-continuity) --Arren Meuchel (talk) 14:41, 19 June 2025 (EDT)

I'm definitely sympathetic towards Saix with regards to this specific change. The Thirteen are pretty much the tentpole for the "aligned" worldbuilding which pretty much marked the end of continuity families in the traditional sense, from a creative perspective at Hasbro (not that the concept was one they were considering to begin with). As he says, everything is G1 now, IDW is aligned, Cyberverse is IDW, and so on. After consideration I prefer the way he's laid it out. However, there's also obviously an argument to be made from a wiki-consistency standpoint, and I want to state for the record that I don't think such a major reorganisation of those pages' contents should have been implemented without a consensus being reached on talkpages first. This should have been a sandboxed proposal, not just something that was done hoping nobody would notice or care enough to raise an objection themselves. —wadapan (talk) 12:54, 19 June 2025 (EDT)

I apologize if I'm a bit off-base here, since I haven't been following these discussions as closely as some, but it seems to me that there are fundamentally two different things that are being presented here: the evolution of the character concept, and the actual fictional history of the various iterations of the character. If that's the case, wouldn't a good solution be to make a separate section for the former while continuing to organize the latter by continuity family like every other page? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 14:57, 19 June 2025 (EDT)

Commentary trivia

Something I find a bit sad is commentary sounding Trivia having to be deleted from episode pages. Those are funny and can be interesting to see, shame they also hog space. Can there be a middle ground where I cam dump them into, say, wild king episodes Synopsis without sounding...unprofessional? (Because the commentary is one of the best parts of some episode descriptions...)Poliwag06 (talk) 00:02, 3 July 2025 (EDT)

Mentioned characters

Something I did back when I was revamping our coverage of the BotCon/Club stuff was add a "mentioned characters" section to the notes; for examples, see Cybertron's Most Wanted, Gone Too Far, and other stories linked to on the Transformers Timelines (fiction) page. It's something that we lack on other pages, and I think that it's worth implementing; in particular, when looking through some of James Roberts' work recently for a side project, I was struck by how often characters that otherwise never appear on page are mentioned. What I wanna propose is adding something like to this our media pages in general.

The Problem: I think that the benefits speak for themselves, but it does also come against the fact that we have hundreds (if not thousands) of episodes/comics/other media by this point, and that it's going to be a non-trivial amount of work getting this up to speed. For that reason, I don't really think a template is the best way to go about, especially if they're going to be sitting empty until someone goes back to read those comics or rewatch that episode or whatever. What I do think might be worth considering is that we add in something about doing it for media pages in their notes section here on out, so that we can have a headstart on at least the currently published stuff; once it becomes something feasible for a template on various pages, then I think we can revisit that idea. For my end, I've been contemplating a re-read of the comics for a few years now, and I'm more than happy to add stuff over the time I do that.

If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please respond here. Escargon (talk) 10:22, 9 July 2025 (EDT)

I always liked how Wookieepedia lists every proper noun in "Appearances" sections (example). I think this concept should expand to include locations, weapons, et al.—basically everything we would make a page for. Yes, it's work to add stuff, but that's editing. Saix (talk) 10:32, 9 July 2025 (EDT)

That sounds like something that could be pretty beneficial information-wise, even if it’s a lot of work. I can definitely start doing something like it for my Earth Wars write-ups as I go through the event stories. - IGEBM13 (talk) 10:49, 9 July 2025 (EDT)

I definitely remember thinking—back when you were regularly working on the Fun Publications pages—that your exhaustive approach to filling out the notes sections with mentioned characters and concepts was really useful, but that it could stand to be formalised in some way. As you say, it'd be a huge amount of work to bring articles for even the most popular stories up to that standard. —wadapan (talk) 11:20, 9 July 2025 (EDT)

I agree this is something it would be valuable to do going forwards. --Broadside (talk)

Plagiarism on the other site

Basically every EarthSpark character page on the other site is a copy-paste of our own. Some of Cyberverse too. Do we care about this? --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 09:34, 11 July 2025 (EDT)

I think the important first question is whether there's any attribution (though I assume the answer will be no). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2025 (EDT)

As in, "this was written by TFWiki" or "this is a unique article we here at Fandom invented"? We can see which users have been doing the copy-pasting. There's one in particular who pasted in Earthspark content (just choose a character), another who has been doing some weapons (i.e. Electro-scrambler). I know full well that fan wikis tend to get copied, so if our position is to simply disregard everything Fandom does, we can stick to that. But their site has, supposedly, had a black-and-white policy dating right back to the split that copying from us is not allowed. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 08:29, 12 July 2025 (EDT)

I think it could be to try and make the fandom wikis page look as good the pages here are. I confess, I did the same to bulbapedia and the fandom pokemon wiki.Poliwag06 (talk) 13:12, 12 July 2025 (EDT)

I see no reason to not make a stink about it to whatever passes for admin there. --M Sipher (talk) 13:14, 12 July 2025 (EDT)

Thylacine - According to CC BY-SA 3.0, they are free to copy our material as long as they provide credit that it was copied from us. If they don't do that, and I'm very much assuming they don't, then we should absolutely raise hell about it, as M Sipher suggests.

As an example, after Wowpedia moved to wiki.gg and became Warcraft Wiki, Fandom put a blanket ban on linking to wiki.gg (for bullshit reasons) and so we've been aggressively deleting any Wowpedia pages that were copied from us because they are functionally unable to provide proper attribution and their staff fucked up and never depowered one of our admins. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 14:31, 13 July 2025 (EDT)a

They are definitely not providing any credit, and they also still have as their very first listed policy "no copying from Wikipedia or TFWiki." transformers dot fandom dot com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki:Policies#Plagiarism --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 16:29, 13 July 2025 (EDT)

Their site lists four admins, of whom two are obviously long retired. One who was last active in May is the source of some of the plagiarism, and also showed themself to be unresponsive to multiple direct questions posted on their wall by Fandom higher-ups. That leaves the one who was last active in June. I wrote that one a message summarizing all this as best I can, bearing in mind that systematically comparing pages on some other peoples' wiki is not at all something I am interested in doing. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 10:02, 14 July 2025 (EDT)

Honestly, failing any response from their admins (which I will imagine will be the case), I think anyone happening to spot plagiarised material can happily just go ahead and delete it on the spot, citing their own policy of not copying from TFWiki. Jalaguy (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2025 (EDT)

A response: transformers dot fandom dot com/wiki/Message_Wall:Moviejunkie2009

I msged the other suggested admins, no response. I did NOT msg the suggested Fandom "community manager" because they have no reason to help us, if anything I expect their response would be to simply erase the relict, circa-2008 anti-plagiarism policy that the current community knows nothing about.

I do not enjoy scanning their New Articles page every day and maxing out my allowed daily edits by blanking the neverending incoming pasted pages. I am going to stop doing this. It pisses me off that a zero-effort community can ignore its own rules and steal our work, but it feels even worse to compulsively devote my free time to marginally cleaning up a zero-effort community's messes. --Thylacine 2000 (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2025 (EDT)

The General commercial with Bumblebee and Shaq

I think we should have information on this commercial for The General with Bumblebee and Shaq:

https://tformers.com/watch-bumblebee-shaq-acting-up-in-new-the-general-insurance-spot/55134/news.html --John Pannozzi (talk) 13:11, 26 July 2025 (EDT)

Maintenance heads up

Just to let everyone know, I'm going to take the site offline temporarily in about an hour for maintenance. Should not be offline for too long, hopefully. --abates (talk) 02:24, 29 August 2025 (EDT)

And we're back. Thank you for your patience.--abates (talk) 03:43, 29 August 2025 (EDT)

Thank you for your work, abates! S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 03:53, 29 August 2025 (EDT)

Coverage idea

We should add a "Major events" section to the episode articles. It helps keep track of events alongside continuity notes and could help finding specific episodes better.Poliwag06 (talk) 19:07, 16 September 2025 (EDT)

Struggling to picture what exactly that would look like. --Arren Meuchel (talk) 15:07, 17 September 2025 (EDT)

Like a Major Events header, then the body text is any important Events that happen in the episode. (E.g. Darkest Hour in TFP: The autobot base is destroyed)Poliwag06 (talk) 01:38, 13 October 2025 (EDT)

Perhaps you could put together an example on a sandbox page? Omegatron (talk) 06:55, 14 October 2025 (EDT)

Uh, idk how to make sandboxes. There are examples over on Bulbapedia though, so that should give a rough idea on what im suggesting. Poliwag06 (talk) 08:02, 14 October 2025 (EDT)

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/User:Poliwag06/Sandbox Omegatron (talk) 09:55, 14 October 2025 (EDT)

I think this works for something like Bulbapedia because Pokemon is a pretty episodic 1000 episode anime with a set of regular events that it's useful to track (X caught / traded / lost a Pokemon / gym battle), whereas Transformers doesn't really work the same way? And things similar to that are already tracked in the trivia notes (the Alchemor prisoner manifest) or kinda fall into listicles which aren't popular (ie who used Cyber Keys that episode, what mini-cons were collected). Trying to qualify what counts as a "major event" outside of, say, "Character debuts / final appearances", which are also already in the trivia notes for for some series (definitely Animated, maybe others), especially in plot terms, feels difficult and liable to cruft and for people to just read the headline of the article. AkibaSilver (talk) 18:01, 14 October 2025 (EDT)

Yeah, the notes already serve as a pseudo-"major events" section with all the stuff you just named, and if you were to look for anything else to add you’d probably end up with something that has so many details it may as well just be the synopsis. - IGEBM13 (talk) 20:53, 14 October 2025 (EDT)

Overview of pre-TF page

Hey, just posting here to provide a wiki-wide notification of sorts that I started an "Overview" section on the Pre-Transformers page and it's in dire need of some chunks of summarized information primarily regarding Diaclone and Micro Change and their respective Transformers localizations, as per the various stub markers left in specific sections. It feels like that page has been needing a proper written history of pre-TFs for a while now, so if anyone could help me fill it out then I'd be glad! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 22:14, 12 October 2025 (EDT))

I'll see about taking a crack at the Diaclone bits as I can. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 00:37, 13 October 2025 (EDT)

Thank you for volunteering, and wow, I had no idea about Horloge Robot: his page has now been made! (FortressMaxxing (talk) 05:06, 13 October 2025 (EDT))

Wahey, thank you! As you can imagine I'd been meaning to get around to that for ages. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 12:45, 13 October 2025 (EDT)

Overgear continuity

Maybe I'm asking this question a bit too early since we only have a vague premise and prototype images for Transformers Overgear, but... Should we archive the figures released underneath it under their characters' G1 pages (when applicable) as it is usually done with odd Takara releases, or should they get entirely new pages instead? This feels like a toyline with a very distinct concept from most other regular Transformers assortments, so I'm frankly leaning on the latter. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 22:27, 16 October 2025 (EDT))

It’s probably too early. And jumping the gun has bitten us in the ass before. Remember Ladybug? Cylasbreakdown (talk) 12:40, 17 October 2025 (EDT)

Proposing a comedic category for fraud

Given the ongoing hubhub over the probable scammers who call themselves Mbilia Studios, how about we make up a "Category:Fraud" or "Category:Fraudsters" like we have "Category:Things that don't exist"? Pat Lee and Dreamwave Productions come to mind as possible members for such a wiki category. S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47 (talk) 08:22, 4 November 2025 (EST)

I see where you’re coming from but it also would be a massive vandal magnet. Hyperious (talk) 08:35, 4 November 2025 (EST)

that also sounds legally actionable in a way the wiki probably doesn't want to deal with. -hx (talk) 10:14, 4 November 2025 (EST)

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeah nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooo let's not. --M Sipher (talk) 14:01, 4 November 2025 (EST)

Sounds like a bad idea to me as well... - IGEBM13 (talk) 16:52, 4 November 2025 (EST)

Joining in to say that yeah, I also agree that this is a bad idea. But I do think that the Mbilia Studios page needs a Controversy section at the very least, the Trivia portion is ridiculously cluttered and it feels like a lot of it would be more comfortably read as just part of a standard couple of paragraphs. (FortressMaxxing (talk) 07:45, 12 November 2025 (EST))

Agreed. I don't think we need that much detailing of how bad the AI video is. Saix (talk) 09:19, 12 November 2025 (EST)

Binder of Revelation Illustration Credits

Okay, don't kill me here, I'm just hoping that the artists who contributed to the Binder fifteen-ish years ago get their proper due since it's out in the open now. I got in touch with the art director of the Binder of Revelation and have a fairly complete list of credits for who did what illustration. Since this isn't actually a published work, how do we go about giving proper illustration credits? Do we even credit anyone? Considering the document itself has no credits, I feel like it's worthwhile that the artists get recognized, even if we aren't putting any images up ourselves. MCRG (talk) 21:37, 25 November 2025 (EST)

I don't think this is objectionable info to note at the least. Saix (talk) 23:03, 25 November 2025 (EST)

For now, maybe put your raw info on a sandbox so we can get a better sense of it? Most of the Binder art I know of was by Ken Christiansen, for instance, so if all but a few pieces are by him, it would seem silly to list them all individually. But I'm guessing it's more varied than that. —wadapan (talk) 00:26, 26 November 2025 (EST)

It's a pretty wide spread, surprisingly. A lot of the pieces are tag team works where Eric Siebenaler did roughs and other artists did the finals, but it's around 5-10 artists without me checking the exact notes at the moment. I'll start getting that together.MCRG (talk) 14:41, 26 November 2025 (EST)

All known credits added. On a side note, is it worth pointing out somewhere that the Binder itself is written in the style of a RPG manual instead of an actual franchise bible? It goes a long way in explaining why it was so quickly disregarded by other creative teams when comparing it to bibles from other franchises or just other series bibles within Transformers on the whole, and the pricetag attached to the project.--MCRG (talk) 15:23, 21 January 2026 (EST)

What are we calling the new "Core" Transformers stuff?

So... what should we call the new generically branded "Transformers" toys that have been showing up? (Prime Changers, Smash Changers, Tiny Turbo Changers, maybe more in the future). Should it be a separate new thing or maybe part of Authentics? The Prime Changer Optimus, Bumbleebee, and Megatron were previously added under Authentics, while someone just started using "Transformers (2026)" for the Tiny Turbo Arcee and Elita, which got me thinking that we should probably figure this out soon.
From what I've gathered they all use "TRA Core" in their listing names, but their packaging design seems identical to current Authentics packaging design, also lacking a distinct subtitle and focusing on "Evergreen" characters to start off. Then again, Hasbro homogenizing all their packaging designs in the last year makes it hard to tell if this line is meant to be its own thing. Though it is notable that unlike prior Authentics, this "Core" line is using bigger size classes and is available at bigger retailers like Target instead of dollar stores. –BluJayWarrior (talk) 18:24, 13 January 2026 (EST)

I was JUST adding a section here and rather than rewriting...

Okay just kinda checking in, because thanks to Hasbro's goddamn infuriating thing about not promoting/announcing anything other than the expensive collector crap, the load of sub-line-less not-Authentics "Core" stuff hitting Targets (at least, has anything popped up at Walmart?) is a bit of a "how do we handle this" deal. Both "how much product is there" and "do we treat this as a separate line, as an extension of Authentics despite it not being a 'discount' store line, or what". I'm leaning towards "just list it as its own line with G1 characters unless pretty explicitly otherwise". --M Sipher (talk) 18:30, 13 January 2026 (EST)

Oh right, Walmart. Off memory they do have the Authentics-styled Mega Sting Bumbleebee (could also be considered a "larger price point" I guess). No clue if any listings gave it a separate name like "Core" has. Walmart also has a bunch of merch stuff in Authentics-style packaging like big head helicopters, Dancing Transformers and a giant RC Bumblebee. –BluJayWarrior (talk) 18:57, 13 January 2026 (EST)

Size of the page again

This page is getting pretty long again, so could someone archive the last year? Hilfam (talk) 12:03, 22 January 2026 (EST)

Idea for a page?

Perhaps a page discussing the various Transformers that have "base modes" as a third form, like Powermaster Prime, Motormaster, etc. It's a major recurring gimmick since G1. DrakeyC (talk) 09:09, 30 January 2026 (EST)

I think a general "base mode" article would make sense, yeah. Saix (talk) 10:19, 30 January 2026 (EST)

seconded. frankly shocked to learn there isn't one already --Arren Meuchel (talk) 11:58, 30 January 2026 (EST)

I think base modes lend themselves better to a category page rather than a full-blown article. What would it even say? “Some Transformers have Base Modes. Here’s a list of all the toys, here’s a list of all the episodes/issues where a base mode appeared.” Cylasbreakdown (talk) 16:51, 4 February 2026 (EST)

I don't see why not. We have articles specifically for Beast mode, Super Mode, attack mode, and transportation mode. For such a prominent feature of Transformers since its early days I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a specific write-up about city/base modes anywhere, and not even as single mention on the main alternate mode page. Closest I can find is Titan (group)#Alternate modes. —BluJayWarrior (talk) 18:01, 4 February 2026 (EST)

I attempted a sandbox for a Base Mode page long ago, but I stopped since I realized it would require an extensive amount of work to list all fiction usages & differentiate what counts/what does not count not (something I struggled with the Micromasters Transports assorments -MahXyme/MahXymal (talk) 17:53, 5 February 2026 (EST)

Seems like a good start at least. I'd argue for listing "groups" of base modes (Micromaster Stations, Titans Return Leaders, etc.) rather than individual figures --Arren Meuchel (talk) 20:36, 5 February 2026 (EST)

Agreed on the organizational aspects. And, that sandbox is a good start, though yeah, it'd need a lot of work to go through all the toylines and make a comprehensive list. There's also the fact that certain toys with base modes are intended to link to others, some universal and some just one specific bot, so it may be tricky to document when that play feature is prevelant. DrakeyC (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2026 (EST)

About character name translations

Um... I'm new here. I have a question, and I'm not sure if this question falls under Help:Official info...

That is, I want to add the translated names of some characters. But I want to know what basis this wiki uses to choose foreign translations. Must the foreign translations be ones used by Hasbro and/or TakaraTomy and their licensees in order to remain on this wiki? Can some of the names translated by fan Chinese translation groups be considered valid? Especially in cases where they were the first to provide a translation for a work (possibly the only one) and fixed certain character names.

There are also some characters (such as Sentinel Maximus) whose works may never be introduced by licensors in certain languages, but they do have a commonly used translated name. Should we include this translated name, or just keep it without a translation in that language?

For example, when IDW comic books were introduced in China, the translation team at the time translated Tarn (G1) as 璇玑湖. So this would count as an authorized translation. However, because this translated name has nothing to do with the original meaning (as well as some other controversies surrounding that Chinese translation group), the more common and widely used Chinese translation for Tarn (G1) is the direct transliteration 塔恩. 璇玑湖 has basically been abandoned. In this case, which translation should we choose?

I suddenly realized that 塔恩 could be used. The packaging of Blokees does indeed call him 塔恩.

Also, does the foreign name used in the product titles by the Hasbro official flagship store count?

Uh, this question might seem a bit silly, or it might come across as a bit strange because I'm speaking English through a translator. But if the existing Wiki rules already cover this issue, please just tell me, thank you.Micheva (talk) 10:18, 12 February 2026 (EST)

This is a fantastic question. I have no authority here so don’t take this as word of law, but I believe that Romanizations on this wiki (which I think is somewhat similar) are case-by-case. The first romanization of Deathsaurus was “Deszarus”, but the page is still titled “Deathsaurus” because that’s what the name actually is supposed to be. (Deathsaurus’ name issues are actually pretty interesting, at least to me, and I’d recommend reading the wiki article’s section on it.) Conversely, Jallguar IS the first romanization used, and the article title, but in that instance I suppose that there isn’t really any convincing reason to use any of the other romanizations we’ve gotten over the years since none of them actually mean anything (it’s just the Japanese word for Jaguar with an extra syllable inserted). I’m rambling. What I would do for foreign names is, stick with the first official translation used, unless you think there’s a compelling reason to use a different one (like what you said with Tarn), and in that case bring it up on the discussion page for the article in question or in the Discord server. Cylasbreakdown (talk) 02:43, 15 February 2026 (EST)

They need to be translations used in official material. That's just the easiest line in the sand we can make. If different translations are used officially, we note them all, barring obvious typos and the such. Saix (talk) 05:22, 15 February 2026 (EST)

Does the name used for the flagship store count? Those works that were not introduced have kept them without translations, right?Micheva (talk) 06:52, 15 February 2026 (EST)

Some publications that contain many translations (such as the Chinese version of DW's MTMTE) I actually don't have the resources for, which is a pity. I have come to realize some issues. For instance, if the translation team used a certain translation term when translating a publication, but later discovered that this term was incorrect, they made the correction in their subsequent fan-based translations. However, since the publication was not re-released after its introduction, the translation term in the authorized merchandise could not be modified. Can we adopt the revised translation term provided by this translation team?

There is another less rigorous question: Does THE translation given by the authorized Chinese translation and introduction team of Chris McFeely's TRANSFORMERS: THE BASICS count?Micheva (talk) 07:07, 15 February 2026 (EST)

THE BASICS, while incredibly informative, is not official, so no, it would not count. Cylasbreakdown (talk) 15:52, 16 February 2026 (EST)

I reiterate, official material only. Mistakes are unfortunate, but that's how it goes and we can't presume unofficial translations will make it into official material. Saix (talk) 17:42, 16 February 2026 (EST)

OK, I will do it this way. Strictly follow the official materials.

And one more question: Can the translation names used by Hasbro's official store be used in this Wiki?Micheva (talk) 23:40, 16 February 2026 (EST)

Material from Hasbro is fine. Saix (talk) 01:50, 17 February 2026 (EST)

So when are we splitting the Legends World characters off?

It made sense to keep them together when Legends first started as Jungle Animals in Decidedly Non-Jungle Situations, and this wasn't worth pursuing before now since it'd be just moving the furniture around. But the lore got deeper and now with New Legends as ongoing fiction I think it's worth looking at again. As much as Legends World is treated as its own dimension, it is fundamentally just a location easily accessible from the JG1 timeline populated with clones* of Transformers from the wider continuity that exists around it. And when we write pages for duplicate characters who co-exist, do we not typically split them off? If that's the yardstick, several Legends Worlders interact with or refer to their JG1 selves, including Rattrap, Rhinox, Waspinator, Arcee, and T-AI. Leo Prime even moves in with Lio Convoy, and keeping those same dudes on the same page is complicating the already complex timeline presented by "Age of Primes". — TheLastGherkin (talk) 12:44, 3 March 2026 (EST) _{*"clones" is a simpler term for these guys than "magically created lifeforms in a telepathic dream world based on real people from 300 years in the future" but same diff}

It's always been strange to me that they weren't split off already. Having them on the same page is extremely confusing. I'd say go for it. --Arren Meuchel (talk) 12:57, 3 March 2026 (EST)

Personally I think this might be overthinking things. I'd agree that it's not quite 1 to 1 with other cross dimension stuff, but functionally Legends Rattrap is a version of the Beast Wars character even if he is in this weird pocket dimension type thing, and ever single "native" to the dimension we see is basically just a comedic version of a pre-existing character. And we've always kept cross dimensional stories with versions of the same character on the same page (Universe, TransTech, et cetera). It makes things complicated, sure, but JG1 stuff has been like that for nearly two decades now. Escargon (talk) 13:00, 3 March 2026 (EST)

For my money, there's just so much with the Legends idiots now, and there's going to keep being more of it, so we'd be best off siloing them into their own pages and not having to think about them any more. Universe and TransTech stories that had the characters interacting were generally one-offs or short runs. This is a Cloud or Galvatron II situation, to me. --Broadside (talk) 13:45, 3 March 2026 (EST)

I am on the record as considering reader experience our prime directive and this would be such a drastic improvement to the readability of our coverage of the Legends rat's nest that I've been meaning to suggest it for years. Consider me emphatically in favor. --AzimuthAcolyte (talk) 20:12, 3 March 2026 (EST)

I think I'm also generally leaning towards "this is already complicated and it's just going to get more complicated so let's detangle this shit sooner rather than later." -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 20:19, 3 March 2026 (EST)

Fine with this idea. Are we using Japanese names since those characters have never shown up in material with Hasbro names? Saix (talk) 20:31, 3 March 2026 (EST)

That feels unnecessarily pedantic. --Broadside (talk) 22:16, 3 March 2026 (EST)

One could make the argument that it's too steeped in Japanese fan culture/terminology to use the Hasbro names, but I really only care about the human characters having Japanese names (because they're normal people living in Tokyo and wouldn't be named things like "T-AI"). Saix (talk) 22:25, 3 March 2026 (EST)

Also, I think Roadbuster, Whirl, and Windblade can stay as they are, since all three are meant to be the main JG1 versions of those characters anyway. Saix (talk) 22:37, 3 March 2026 (EST)

Historically I've leaned more in the direction of "this feels like putting these dumb animals on too much of a pedestal", given the meta-importance that page splits tend to imply to the wiki's audience, but I find the "these are functionally clones who exist within JG1 continuity specifically, not just 'normal' alternate versions of the characters" framing pretty compelling, so I'm surprising myself by saying I wouldn't be opposed to a split at this point. Making stuff like multiple Lios Convoy interacting less insane to write about is definitely a bonus too. Jalaguy (talk) 04:34, 4 March 2026 (EST)

Oh, also, and I hope it would go without saying, but obviously the toys that technically represent Transformerised Legends World guys would need to go on both pages (which I think we're already doing anyway for cases like the Targetmasters that are actually technically Kiss Players and Beastformers and stuff). Jalaguy (talk) 04:41, 4 March 2026 (EST)