MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

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Moving From Wikia: Arriving Leaving Complaints New Ad Policy: Ads Bookworm Database-Crash: Damage Control Central Project:Bookworm Crash Leaving Take 2 Server Move: Arriving Take 2 Relicensing: Relicensing Dealing With Vandalism: Vandalism GoBots Sister Wiki: Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki

G.I. Joe wiki - a little help?

Hello, all. I just wanted to add a request for some help for what should really by this wiki's sister site, Joepedia, the G.I. Joe Wiki. Now, I posted a similar request on some other sci-fi themed wiki, but the only answer I got was being told that the rules forbid a request from another wiki to be made. Well, I think that was kind of stupid, considering the communal attitude the whole wiki concept represents. BUT, ANYWAY, the Joepedia has been growing over the years, but it's mostly frequented by a small dedicated group of contributors. Since Transformers and G.I. Joe are so closely linked, I hoped some folks on here would like to help.

I will add that I have no authority over on that site, and I don't really contribute much, mostly because of the time spent my own website. I'm just a concerned geeky citizen drumming up some support. --JMM 10:26, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

Well, I would, but I really don't know jack shit about G.I. Joe. And when I think about it, I'm not sure this post belongs here. -- spyder 17:36, 7 September 2012 (EDT)

Just looking around for a little help. This seemed like the closest thing to a G.I. Joe wiki out there, and I figured it was worth a try. --JMM 13:23, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

I don't see a problem with a polite request for assistance or notification that a Joe wiki exists, since there IS some crossover interest. I just don't know how much useful crossover interest for the Joe wiki there is from this end outside of what we've already done. I mean, we've got extensive coverage of the parts of Joe directly involving TFs... I'd say that's probably going to be the most useful thing we have for you. But, if others wanna try it out...

...unless you're on Wikia.... --M Sipher 13:27, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

Yeah, it was just a quick heads up so people who may be interested are aware. I know a number of people who are equally obsessed with TF and Joe. :) Oh, and yes, it is on Wikia! --JMM 14:22, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

We did at one point approach a partnership with Joepedia, and even had a template that cross-linked articles we shared. It was just a little premature at the time (which was years ago) as Joepedia was just starting out and often our articles were more complete than theirs, or theirs were just stubs. It looks like they've gotten off the ground a bit more now.--Rosicrucian^Talk 15:30, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

Yes, their wiki got started later than this one. They have a small group of dedicated contributers, but the site's yet to attract the kind of interest this one does. --JMM 16:34, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

New stub templates

Video game stub template

Does anybody have any objections to a video game stub template? It would look something like this:

If anybody knows of a better picture that would go well with this, please upload it so it can be put in. Thanks! -- spyder^{Use this!} 15:52, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

How about a pic from the story where Prime dies in a video game? Heh if only Beta had ever been in a game, that'd be perfect. --76.28.76.206 16:03, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

What story was that? And yeah, that woulda been great. -- spyder^{Use this!} 19:53, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

That would be Afterdeath!. --Detour 21:56, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Well if people really want a picture from that, someone else will have to upload it, as I don't have access to it. -- spyder^{Use this!} 21:59, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Right here, dude.--Detour 22:34, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, man. It's on the Prime: The Game page if you want to see it. -- spyder^{Use this!} 22:50, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

In addition to the video game stub, I'd like to suggest adding several templates, such as "section stub" and "fiction stub". Right now, we only have "characer stub fiction" for pages only missing fiction section, but no templates for non-character page missing fiction appearance. While "section stub" can use for articles only missing one or two sections. --TX55^TALK 22:05, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Ok, so I'm gonna go ahead and make the video game one, and TX, if I get around to it later, maybe the others. If not, well, someone else will. Oh, and if I miss an article that the video game one should go on, put it here. -- spyder^{Use this!} 22:31, 2 October 2012 (EDT)

Novel stub template

Ok, who has an idea for a picture for a novel stub template? I'm not good with coming up with pictures for these templates. -- spyder^{Use this!} 22:11, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

It would look like this like this:

-- spyder^{Use this!} 10:23, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

Megatron Barcode Battler Card

Hi, I was wondering if anyone here had come across this Megatron card for the Barcode Battler, or knows where in the Wiki it should go:

It seems to have been released by Toys R Us in 1992 as a promo for the Barcode Battler (which they were trying to sell in store), and was (as far as is known) the only such Transformers card, probably given away with two blank cards (the bottom scan - the middle is from the Barcode Battler box) to add your own barcodes to, and a card wallet.

The text ("Clad in steel, armed to the teeth, nobody toys with us good guys when this moody cool deadly-dudey is around.") is probably enough to make you want to forget this was ever made (is it really calling Megatron a good guy?), but it's cropped up in enough eBay sales (occasionally found in Barcode Battler lots with the seller unaware that they've got something rare) to make it likely to be genuine.

So does anyone else have any information on it, and whereabouts should this go? xensyria 12:26, 16 October 2012 (EDT) EDIT: 13:10, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

I definitely don't know anything about it, besides that it's awesome, but if it's from 1992, then the only Megatron it could be is Megatron (G1), and so it should probably be on his toys/merchandise page.

It's also plausible that someone who knows something about Barcode Battlers should make a short article on them for the wiki, since we have a lot of those "this broader thing had a TF thing released under it" pages. -LV 12:31, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Or...this isn't anything to do with a licensed Transformers thing? I sort of blindly assumed Hasbro was the entity selling the Barcode Battler in the UK, but the packaging doesn't seem to support that. It's hard to believe it's not intended to be TF Megatron, but I'm also not sure it's an official product. Especially since this Megatron guy seems to be the boxfront "main character" for the UK Barcode Battler release. -LV 12:37, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Ah, that's a possibility, but Barcode Battler was being distributed in most of Europe by Tomy, so they probably gave Toys R Us rights to use Megatron. Perhaps they couldn't get the rights to use his picture though (as you say, it's Tomy's Barcode Battler cover on the card, so anyone who used the card probably wouldn't think it was supposed to be Megatron). I should also say that 1992 is more of an educated guess than fact, but it's bound to be somewhere around that.

If it's offical I don't mind making a Barcode Battler article (though I'll have to check out some of the other examples you mention first). xensyria 13:02, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Wait, I just re-read Wikipedia, and Tomy was rivals with Takara who owned Transformers at the time. Still, I wonder if such big companies would risk a lawsuit over using Megatron, when they had all sorts of other franchises they could use instead; more likely Toys R Us arranged the deal with Hasbro, who they no doubt were one of the biggest retailers for at the time. xensyria 13:04, 16 October 2012 (EDT) EDIT: 13:12, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Unlikely to be a Hasbro/TF related thing. In 1992 TFs weren't even being made in the US and the UK line didn't have a Megatron, the Decepticons were led by Skyquake at that time. --Khajidha 13:14, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Well, this is sort of like with Yu-Gi-Oh's Space Megatron, Hasbro's trademark just didn't apply to things like gaming cards, so Tomy, just like Konami later, was in a safe zone. --Detour 14:20, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Ah, that would explain the "good guys" text as well. It seems to be a U.K. only thing, and though there may not have been Megatron toys there (is there a reference to them not being released in the U.K. on this on the wiki?) the name would have been familiar from the the film. Is there anywhere for similarly unofficial merchandice here, or should it be cast back into the purgatory of its makers' device? xensyria 15:11, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

While I never played it, I distinctively remember Barcode Battlers as well, so it's not a UK-only thing. --Detour 15:15, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

My bad, I mean the Megatron card, which uses the Tomy box art (the U.S. version was by Irwin, and Japan by the developer, Epoch). xensyria 15:22, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

See The Transformers (toyline) and Generation 1 (European toyline) for lists of what was released in the US and Europe each year of the original toyline. --Khajidha 15:37, 16 October 2012 (EDT)

Also, in answer to your question about unofficial merchandise, we only cover official products from Hasbro, Takara and their license holders. About the only place that this could really go on this site is the trademark page, in a similar use as the "Space Megatron" card from Yu-Gi-Oh! --Khajidha 07:53, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Thanks to all of you for the info. I've added it to the trademark talk page, but will leave it up to you whether it's a notable enough example to be added to the article or not. xensyria 15:55, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Recent spamming

Granted, I haven't been here all that often, but the recent spamming has me wondering if the perpetrator(s) are using some form of IP hopping. It's feeling rather hydra-ish at the moment. --Lonegamer78 07:22, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

I still suggest you add a recaptcha for edits that add external links, at least for new accounts.192.249.47.177 14:09, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

If that's possible, I like that idea. -- spyder^{Use this!} 18:34, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

What IP guy said. Also, if we disabled all "Talk:/Talk" pages, that'd help a bit. Either way, the latest spambot assault is obliterating the recent changes page. -- Repowers 08:21, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

The "Talk:/Talk" thing has been mentioned numerous times in the past, I was actually surprised to see these still popping up. I'm guessing some other wikis have already implemented this, as there seems no other reason for the several "Talk:T/alk" (note order of characters) pages that have popped up recently. --Khajidha 10:03, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

I don't care what we do, but we need to do something, and we need to do it now. - Chris McFeely 10:09, 24 October 2012 (EDT)

What McFeely said. This crap needs to stop. -- spyder^{Use this!} 08:47, 25 October 2012 (EDT)

Looking at the recent changes, this is getting worse. -- spyder^{Use this!} 18:20, 25 October 2012 (EDT)

According to McFly, anon editing has been eliminated. This kills a lot of it, plus a chunk of human-born vandalism. The next step is that new accounts will get an automated confirmation email with a link that will unlock the new account, which should hopefully take out the other major spambot problems. --M Sipher 18:30, 25 October 2012 (EDT)

Leaving those that make accounts just to spam. Well, one step at a time. --Lonegamer78 00:29, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

Well, there's not much we can do with dedicated human antagonists. --M Sipher 00:43, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

And, the worst problem was the spambots anyway. -- spyder^{Use this!} 06:45, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

Rather than blocking all IP editing, did you guys ever try out recaptcha for new accounts or articles?KrytenKoro 20:27, 9 November 2012 (EST)

Universe/UT Micromaster combiners

There isn't any general page for these, so I'm putting this here.

Given our treatment of the ROTF/Universe (2008) Bruticus Maximus and Superion sets, I wonder if the Universe (2003) Micromaster combiners whose European releases were branded as Energon (Defensor, Constructicon Devastator) or Cybertron (Superion, Rail Racer) should be considered Unicron Trilogy characters. It's the same basic situation, except that the nature of Universe (2003) means that just because the European versions are Energon/Cybertron doesn't mean they're different guys. --Andrusi 11:00, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Aren't they already listed that way? Defensor and Constructicon Devastator have "Energon Autobot" and "Energon Decepticon" categories and Superion and Rail Racer are in the category "Cybertron Autobots". I haven't checked the individual team members yet. --Khajidha 12:59, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Just checked the team members and found only one that was not categorized as Energon or Cybertron characters (Long Haul), I added the appropriate category. --Khajidha 13:04, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

I guess he's talking about the continuity identifier at the top? 24.211.29.87 13:24, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Ah, that makes sense. I could see something like the one used for King Atlas. --Khajidha 13:49, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Yeah, I meant the continuity identifiers (and in the case of some components, like Red Alert, the "relation unknown" bio notes). The categories honestly never occurred to me. --Andrusi 12:36, 19 October 2012 (EDT)

Election Day

Perhaps the President of the United States should be the featured article... just for today.--Jimsorenson 10:41, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Much as I like the idea, it doesn't have much of an intro paragraph, which makes it hard to front-page it.--Rosicrucian^Talk 12:20, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Transtech Optimus and Megatron might also be good choices.KrytenKoro 13:02, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Democracy? --Emvee 13:06, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Yeah, that's got a proper intro paragraph and is actually a fairly nice article. Jalaguy 13:08, 6 November 2012 (EST)

We've used it on Election Day before, s'why. --ItsWalky 13:23, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Aligned

Can we... can we just disambiguate WFC/FOC/Prime stuff like we do everything else on this wiki, please? --ItsWalky 14:51, 11 November 2012 (EST)

I am still not clear as to why WFC and FOC are treated as franchises of their own rather than specific iterations of the Prime franchise. I would support changing all the disambigs of WFC/FOC/Prime to Prime. --Khajidha 15:03, 11 November 2012 (EST)

WFC and FOC have their own franchise branding. For example, the Fall of Cybertron comic is branded as Fall of Cybertron, not as Prime. When you have a series of related properties with "Transformers: ________" as a shared title with its own logo, that's a more often than not a franchise. --ItsWalky 01:26, 12 November 2012 (EST)

And for that matter, WFC and FOC encompass even our most strict definition of franchise, as each of them is at minimum a game, a comic, and a toyline.--Rosicrucian^Talk 03:54, 12 November 2012 (EST)

So what are you asking for, here, Walky? For Optimus Prime (Prime) to be at "Optimus Prime (WFC)"? - Chris McFeely 05:05, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Yes. --ItsWalky 15:15, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Frankly, I'd love to see Optimus Prime (WFC), Optimus Prime (Prime) and Optimus Prime (RB). --TX55^TALK 12:31, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Why would we part out a character's page by separate franchises within the same continuity family? --Detour 13:00, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I agree that some of the disambig'ing is getting pretty mad. Like Aligned Bruticus being at (Prime) due to a piece of concept art for a foreign-market MMO that isn't even used on the page, for instance. Given that the original reason for overriding (WFC) disambigs was to avoid confusion, it seems pretty ridiculous. I understand the original intention was to help people looking for the show characters, but the same could be said of, say, Sideways, who is disambig'd based on a less well known first appearance rather than a starring cartoon role, and we haven't changed him. My opinion's that we should either, as Walky says, abandon the 'Prime takes precedence for disambigs' thing, or come up with a more concrete set of guidelines than 'the moment they appear in anything the tiniest bit Prime-y, change the disambig'. Jalaguy 13:36, 12 November 2012 (EST)

As someone who initially advocated for our current methodology, I'd really only intended it for show characters or characters in the Prime toyline. That's my only real hang-up here, that if a new user comes here after watching the show or picking up a toy, they shouldn't get tangled up by the fact that we're insisting on putting (WFC) on the end of something because it debuted in the game. Parentheticals are for ease of use, not dogmatic technicality.--Rosicrucian^Talk 14:59, 12 November 2012 (EST)

For what it's worth, I still think that we should do our disambiguations by continuity families. We still have one article per character per continuity family, so it seems the most logical to me to call that the disambiguation and only go deeper when we have two different characters from the same continuity family with the same name. After all, when you go to the current disambiguation pages, that's how we describe the character in text. It would avoid this entire mess. Basically, the principal I think we should employ is to use the highest possible level when disambiguating characters. If a character is unique, no disambiguation necessary. If only one guy named 'Optimus Prime' shows up in Aligned, then call him Optimus Prime (Aligned). I realized that that means that the Unicron Trilogy and movie franchises, with their rampant name reuse, will tend to go one level deeper... but since that's what we're doing today, it shouldn't be too big of an issue. As we've seen, the lines between franchises are only getting blurrier, and we have every reason to believe this trend will continue. In maybe 95% of cases, we really will have only one character per name per continuity family, and then we (and our readers) won't have to try to figure out where Aligned Prime first popped his head up. --Jimsorenson 18:33, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I find myself agreeing with this. As someone who was not to long ago just a reader, I can say that disambiguating by continuity family would probably help a lot of people. -- spyder^{Use this!} 20:00, 12 November 2012 (EST)

If you do that, may I suggest you take the opportunity to come up with a less confusing name for the G1 continuity family that isn't the same as the franchise. That way there won't be a bunch of Beast Wars characters with (G1). How about the "inaugural continuity family"? Optimus Prime (Inaugural)

Cons

• Continuity family names are unofficial for the most part.
• Fiction-only dimension hoppers are a bit of a problem. Do they go in their "home" continuity family or the continuity family of the piece of fiction they originated in?
• Pros
• I would personally feel better about the IDW original characters if they were disambiguated by the G1 continuity family (or the inaugural continuity family) instead of the G1 franchise. - Starfield 20:17, 12 November 2012 (EST)

If it's a choice between having (WFC) disambigs on Prime characters or radically changing how we organize the wiki and having to move thousands of articles (who's going to have time to even do that?), I prefer the former as a solution. --abates 20:36, 12 November 2012 (EST)

In full agreement there. But I do think redirects with other franchise disambigs would be helpful to newcomers. Like someone who may have watched Cybertron but not be aware of the Armada toy who might try to search for "Thundercracker (Cybertron)", for example. --Detour 20:49, 12 November 2012 (EST)

For what it's worth, I still think that we should do our disambiguations by continuity families.

Agree. The only reason we don't for the Unicron Trilogy is because of the absolutely rampant name reuse, but Prime hasn't seen that problem. I think that (in principle) everyone should be disambig'd (Aligned).

That or you have to more Breakdown (Prime) to Breakdown (WFC).

...also Rescue Bots. Aligned they are. -Derik 00:45, 13 November 2012 (EST)

I strongly feel we should stick to using official terms and abbreviations thereof in our disambiguation, and "aligned" is not really official (it was from a Hasbro guy describing their aim as a "new aligned continuity" ISTR). Unless we renamed it to the "Prime continuity family", but that way possibly lies madness. --abates 22:33, 13 November 2012 (EST)

I bet you anything that if we looked around we could find someone official referring to it as Aligned. (If only because we do.) -Derik 22:36, 13 November 2012 (EST)

Not that I want to do everything by continuity family, because I absolutely do not, but even "Generation 1" started out as a fan term, and "Unicron Trilogy" was based on something Aaron Archer said once but became widespread because the Wiki used it. "Aligned," another thing said once by Hasbro, is no different. But again, argh, no, disambiging by continuity family raises more headaches than it solves. UT isn't the only continuity family where name reuse is rampant. --ItsWalky 01:08, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Yeah, colossal headaches if we tried to smoosh the various comic and toy characters from each movie's ancillary franchise together.--Rosicrucian^Talk 01:22, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Would it be? If they're different characters, they're different characters. So, Sentinel Prime would go from Sentienl Prime (ROTF) to Sentinel Prime (Movie). He's a good example of a confusing disambiuation. He's the villain in movie 3, but is at movie 2 because of an unnamed montage sequence. Someone like movie Devastator, who is two separate characters, would remain exactly as they are.--Joefan 12:06, 14 November 2012 (EST)

Except if it's by continuity family, he'd be at "Sentinel Prime (LAMS)". I think changing our entire way of naming articles and moving thousands of articles just to fix the "(Prime)" issue is like using a nuclear bomb to hammer in a nail. --abates 14:12, 14 November 2012 (EST)

My view on this topic has changed, and I now agree with this. -- spyder^{Use this!} 15:44, 14 November 2012 (EST)

My understanding was that we HAD been disambig-ing by Continuity family, and chose NOT to for the Unicron Trilogy and LAMS because the rampant name reuse would make this horribly confusing. But for Aligned... so far we've already gotten three franchises and virtually no overlap.

I'm going to cite Help:Ignore all standards, which states that Standards are good; TFWiki.net likes standards. We're just not under the illusion that standards are perfect. and more importantly "In situations where the standards intended to prevent confusion would instead contribute to it, common sense should rule."

Actually... wasn't disambiging the UT series by franchise a case of H:IAS? We decided to do that because the way rampant name reuse rendered other approaches impractical. -Derik 14:05, 16 November 2012 (EST)

We don't disambig by franchise because of the UT. We disambig by franchise because of EVERYTHING. UT was never ever ever the straw that broke the camel's back. The back came pre-broken. --ItsWalky 14:22, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Whatever. Can I move Breakdown (Prime) to Breakdown (WFC) or not? -Derik 15:35, 16 November 2012 (EST)

That's what I'd like to do eventually, but I don't think we've reached a firm enough consensus to do something that big and sprawling. --ItsWalky 16:16, 16 November 2012 (EST)

...he's got the wrong disambig. We disambig by the franchise he first appeared in. His WFC appearance was 6 months prior to his Prime appearance. Why does that require some sort of confab?

You are preaching to the choir on this point, but previously a consensus was made that Prime stuff operates differently from everything else on the wiki. I want to overturn that, but until I do, the previous consensus stands. --ItsWalky 16:58, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Of course the answer is "because we're already in an Ignore all standards situation; we want to disambig them with (Prime) even though that's against our standard treatment, but we haven't properly dealt-with/processed/mourned that."

If we give in to a rigid standard and move him (and everyone else) to (WFC), I think it's almost inevitable that there will be a pushback against the anti-intuitive mess that makes the disambigs, which will itself lead to either returning them to (Prime) or switching everything to (Aligned) I just do not see (WFC) for the main characters 'standing.'

Which would mean that we aren't facing a choice between standard-vs-nonstandard, but between nonstandard-vs-nonstandard. And given that choice I think (Aligned) is the better nonstandard.

(You may feel free to disagree with my assessment of the outcome of a (WFC) move. I recognize that my beliefs about "what would probably happen after" are just a hypothesis and should not be treated as fact.) -Derik 16:56, 16 November 2012 (EST)

If we do go to strict franchise of origin on Aligned continuity family characters, we are going to have to be super diligent on redirects for anyone that appears in the Prime show or toyline.--Rosicrucian^Talk 17:55, 16 November 2012 (EST)

I half-agree, if only because we won't have to be TOO diligent on the pages that exist already, because that would involve merely not deleting the redirects from the old locations once we move the pages. It'd be a kind of reverse-diligence, since it would really mean one less step than usual. Otherwise, yes, if a character is in Prime, there should be a redirect from there. --ItsWalky 19:13, 16 November 2012 (EST)

So have people have a chance to mull this over some? I'm leaning towards going back to the "by franchise" rule and having "Breakdown (WFC)" because it's both simpler than any of the alternatives, and it's consistent with what we do everywhere else. So long as "Breakdown (Prime)" redirects there, and I don't see any reason for it not to, people will still be able to find it. --abates 18:56, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Fun fact

According to my calculations we had around about 6876 articles when we left Wikia, so we've added over 10000 more in the four and a bit years since we left. --abates 03:27, 19 November 2012 (EST)

While wikia has added... 929 articles.--Carrion 12:09, 19 November 2012 (EST)

929, really? No offense but I thought it was less. --TX55^TALK 13:47, 19 November 2012 (EST) <13:57, 19 November 2012 (EST) edit>

Hey, be fair, they've also added a blog. GUH. --Khajidha 13:49, 19 November 2012 (EST)

And a video library! Because people go to wikis to watch movie trailers! --abates 14:43, 19 November 2012 (EST)

I was just there the other day... their article for Animated Bulkhead still has an "ongoing" tag... --Detour 19:06, 19 November 2012 (EST)

Split Pages

We have several characters on the list of Long pages–such as Kup (G1), ‎Prowl (G1), Megatron (G1), Ratchet (G1), and Hot Rod (G1). So I suggest to split their G1 cartoon, Marvel comics, and IDW comics section into new pages. – Thunderweb 01:40, 20 November 2012 (EST)

That's cool and all, but please don't split off pages if you're not going to write proper intros/summaries for them and include appropriate categories on the sub pages. --abates 17:12, 24 November 2012 (EST)

Aligned section breakup is warping canon

Currently^(Nov-27-12) our Breakdown (Prime) page lists all his Prime appearances then ghettotizes out his Fall of Cybertron appearances into a subsequent section as a separate continuity, and thus less important than the cartoon despite coming first.

Bulkhead (Prime) and Knock Out (Prime) are a little better, but the Prime wii game (by the series writers, intended to fit in season 2 albeit without a specific "after this episode and before this episode" date) is broken out as a seperate continuity

Traditionally this has been our way of dealing with games because they are a secondary media; being sorta warped reflections of some core media with (for the most part) minimal contribution to continuity. But, you know, Aligned is different. The War for Cybertron / Fall of Cybertron games are part of the same continuity, occurring before the cartoon. We sort of rolled our eyes when Hasbro first insisted on this (mostly because the Transformers: Exodus novel doesn't fit well with the game or the cartoon.) But the reality increasingly is that they are one continuity. Hell, this is a quote from an interview w/ John Barber, writer of Rage of the Dinobots.

JB: The Transformers story has been going on continuously for a very long time, and I think it’s fair to say the Prime universe is working to take the best elements of every expression and build a world. What’s really exciting is that what we’re doing in the comic is going to impact this world across various mediums. So, it isn’t a case where we’re doing a book that’s subservient to the TV show—we’re doing an all-new story set in that same universe, and the stories we tell are going to be reflected in the shows and the novels and everything else. It’s “canon.” Which is cool, and sort of rare and unique.

RS: The book is a truly cross-media venture tying in with the upcoming game Fall of Cybertron as well as the Transformers Prime series, how much of a 'juggling act' is it to coordinate the story between the different outlets?

JB: Fortunately I get to work with some of the best people in the business. Michael Kelly, who’s Hasbro’s Director of Global Publishing, is a great friend and somebody I get to work with very closely. He coordinates with the Transformers brand team at Hasbro—which contains some really good friends of mine, too. Plus I’ll talk to the folks at Random House, and we’re constantly emailing with everybody at High Moon, who produce FALL OF CYBERTRON, so while there are a lot of moving parts, we’re all talking. And we’re all building toward the same goals of good storytelling and a cohesive worldview.

Also—the new Prime comic is being written by Mike Johnson and Mairghread Scott, both of whom—in addition to being comics writers, both write for thePrime TV show. So they know what’s what.John Barber, AICN COMICS Q&@: Russ Sheath talks to IDW's John Barber about TRANSFORMERS PRIME: RAGE OF THE DINOBOTS!

Messy as it was for the rollout, the people producing the stuff intend for it to be one universe and are writing it at such. And the various franchises are slowly converging as a result.

We need to consolidate these sections under a single "Aligned continuity" header. Because the way we're doing it right now is fucking things up.

(And no we can't have WFC/Prime subsection headers for the same reason we can't separate the Movieverse prequel minis, they interleve. The games don't deal with Prime and Megatron's pre-war history bot the novels and TV shows do mention it.) -Derik 21:19, 26 November 2012 (EST)

Yeah, I think the way we do it now is better-organized. Video game stuff, no matter how high-profile it is, tends to be overwritten by the "real" stories that later adapt it. I'd rather keep stuff separated by medium. --ItsWalky 22:28, 26 November 2012 (EST)

Agreed. There's no way to kludge it all together under one heading without either ignoring some details or presenting them in a vague, unhelpful manner, given the contradictions that exist. You cite the Prime game, but at no point in season 2 do the Decepticons EVER consist of Megatron, Starscream, Airachnid and Dreadwing at the same time. It can't fit. And your other example - it's all well and good to quote that Barber quote, Derik, but the preview for "Rage of the Dinobots" alone has shown Grimlock present on Cybertron, Sludge being alive and Blast Off dying at a point when in the games, Grimlock has vanished, Sludge has died and Blast Off needs to be alive. (Not to say that the comic might not address these points, it's just the example foremost in my brain as it's been discussed recently.) - Chris McFeely 05:16, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Chris, the only contradiction we've seen in the Rage of the Dinobots comic preview thus far is Sludge being alive. It's set after the Ark left, during which Grimlock was still on Cybertron. And Blast Off being there ties in with Jazz and Jetfire having knocked Bruticus off the Ark before it went through the space bridge. He was last seen plummeting, seemingly, back to Cybertron; and judging by this comic, it looks like he made it.

Now, as for my thoughts on the reorganization of the Aligned fiction sections, I offer a counterproposal. Keep each section separate as they are, but I'd feel more confortable with the WFC and FOC sections place above the Prime sections to coincide with their chronological placement in the timeline. Perhaps put the Exodus section first, then the WFC sections, then the FOC comic section, the FOC the game, then Exiles or Rage of the Dinobots (depending on how that comic with play out will determent if it's better set before or after Exiles), then the Prime comic, then the Prime cartoon, then the Prime game, and then the Rescue Bots cartoon. Each keeps its own section, but arranged in as close to chronological order as possible. --Sabrblade 12:20, 27 November 2012 (EST)

I don't understand how putting some of the video game stuff outside of the video game section is intuitive, because presumably we'd be keeping the Prime game stuff down below. --ItsWalky 12:23, 27 November 2012 (EST)

I'm saying to treat the games as fiction themselves instead of a second tier category, since, unlike previous continuities, they're of a greater importance to their master continuity than any past games have ever been. --Sabrblade 12:39, 27 November 2012 (EST)

The Breakdown (Prime) article separates along Fiction and Games, placing the WFC/FOC games in the latter when they are part of the same body of fiction. Even if you don't want to place them in the same continuity, they should both be in the Fiction header.

The separate header for games system has its origins in the traditional relationship of games to other fiction, where they present a wildly divergent or exclusive or alternate version of another existing franchise or story. These are primary story material which have no 'primary story' they present an alternate version of because they are the primary story. You can't ghettoize them as "something other than fiction." -Derik 17:28, 27 November 2012 (EST)

That's what I'm saying. Putting the individual video game subsections into the main fiction section instead of putting them in a separate video game section since the games aren't a second tier of the main story this time. --Sabrblade 17:37, 27 November 2012 (EST)

I realize this isn't the time or place for this, but regarding those points, I'll say that the clear implication at the end of FoC is that Grimlock has vanished through the spacebridge (he doesn't get out before the explosion and the Dinobots watch as something shoots up the beam into the portal), and as the Ark is the last of the vessels to leave in the game, it can't fit with what we're seeing here with Blast Off's timeline. - Chris McFeely 12:26, 27 November 2012 (EST)

I never got the impression that Grimlock got sent through the space bridge. His fate was rather amibiguous to the nth degree, leaving plenty open room for him to still be on Cybertron after the game. He's running away, there's a blinding light, and then the scene cuts away. for all we know, he could have fallen off the platform he was on and plummeted far to the ground below, away from the space bridge's reach (though he'd be in for some serious repairs after a fall form that height). As for the other ships, we know that the planet was completely abandoned by the present day, so the Dinobots and Wreckers would have had to have gotten off the planet somehow and at some point. Just because the Ark was the last vessel to leave during the Great Exodus doesn't mean there weren't more ships set aside in reserve for or built later by those who stayed behind so they could eventually leave when the time would come for them to do so after the Great Exodus. --Sabrblade 12:39, 27 November 2012 (EST)

And thus, we see the the hand-wringing necessary to align everything. - Chris McFeely 12:50, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Pun not intended. --ItsWalky 13:39, 27 November 2012 (EST)

Yeah, and until we get canonical answers to things like where the Prime game or Optimus/Bumblebee's appearances in Rescue Bots fit, sticking everything under one header is just not possible. --abates 14:59, 27 November 2012 (EST)

I think my main qualm here is that every time someone tries to make the case that Aligned is somehow different and thus deserves us altering the way we treat it relative to other continuity families, we end up with even more examples of how Aligned is pretty much a branching, loosely-connected thing just like every other continuity family. I mean sure, it'll never get quite to the point of how spread out the G1 continuity family is. Regardless, this is no different from how obvious it was that Bay's writers didn't give a damn about the movie comics, and so forth.--Rosicrucian^Talk 12:49, 27 November 2012 (EST)

It's very easy to say "this doesn't seem to fit" but Barber says he's coordinating his story with High Moon Studios so there aren't any conflicts.

The people writing these things are trying to make them one continuity, damnit! Do we have to fight them this hard? -Derik 13:22, 27 November 2012 (EST)

And IDW tried to make the comics jive with the live-action movies, and Barber himself is the one that had to get the mop whenever that didn't work out. Heck, Barber had early drafts of the movie scripts in many cases, and ended up drawing off of concepts that ultimately weren't even used in the movies.--Rosicrucian^Talk 20:07, 27 November 2012 (EST)

I cant' tell if you're saying IDW succeeded or not, there's a lot of handwaving in the IDW timeline but it mostly works, largely thanks to Barber bending over backwards to explain how the DotM conspiracy could possibly be present during the 2007 movie and somehow miss Megatron.  ;) -Derik 00:05, 28 November 2012 (EST)

I'm not faulting the man's efforts, and certainly he must have won a No-Prize back in the day from the Merry Marvel Marching Squad, but all I'm really saying is this is nothing new.--Rosicrucian^Talk 01:43, 28 November 2012 (EST)

What are you saying? The Movieverse comics and the films are in the same continuity. Just read the Movie continuity page. I don't care so much how the fiction is listed in character pages, but I'd like to see the Aligned continuity family page moved to "Aligned continuity" and the appropriate changes made to reflect the fact that the Aligned stuff is all officially the same continuity. Officially! Nobody in G1 tried to say "all this stuff is in the same continuity." - Starfield 11:10, 28 November 2012 (EST)

James Roberts notes

As self-referencial as Roberts' work gets, most of the notes sections on MTMTE pages are getting ridiculously long. Some of them have become big blocks of text that cover an entire screen. Is there any way we can break these down into smaller subsections? "Roberts referencing Roberts" vs. "Roberts referencing other stories"? "Story notes" vs. "Easter eggs"?--Xaaron 09:52, 13 December 2012 (EST)

I don't think any of the notes sections for Roberts stories are "ridiculously long." --ItsWalky 10:41, 13 December 2012 (EST)

Four of the last five regular issues have Notes sections that cover my entire monitor. One big screen of bullet points. It's aesthetically unpleasing, my eyes glaze over just looking at it, and I can't be the only one. We discourage big blocks of text in the History sections, and this isn't much different.

I'm not saying the Notes themselves aren't "note-worthy". It just...doesn't look good. I think an effort could be made to make it easier on the eyes. More images in that section, or some sub-sections to break up the bullet points is not unreasonable to suggest. --Xaaron 11:12, 13 December 2012 (EST)

"Things that don't exist" category

FYI, readers that don't have accounts can't access this category through articles because they're blocked from the editing page, which the red link automatically takes them to. Mimi 02:52, 18 December 2012 (EST)

Hmm, we could possibly use javascript to amend links to it to point to http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Things_that_don%27t_exist instead, which does work for logged out users. --abates 03:06, 18 December 2012 (EST)

Batchtaster?

Really? --Xaaron 18:19, 1 January 2013 (EST)

Captions

I have often found myself simply reading this website for entertainment because it just appeals to my sense of humor that much. I have often found myself wanting to somehow upvote or like a caption because it was just that good. Is there a way to do this? If not, can there be? Tourny 20:59, 5 January 2013 (EST)

I don't think that'd ever happen, because at the end of the day, this a Transformers wiki, not a 'post your Transformers jokes here' website. The jokes aren't and never should be the main focus, they're just a fun side effect. If anything, such a system would kind of legitimise the people who show up and do just want to use this place as a place to post their 'hilarious' Transformers jokes without contributing anything useful, and god knows we don't want that... Jalaguy 04:52, 6 January 2013 (EST)

A most welcome way of doing it would be to point out the captions you like by posting to your facebook or twitter or what have you, especially with a link to the TFWiki page in question. --abates 05:18, 6 January 2013 (EST)

Aligned character page main images

Since we've finally beun to treat the Aligned characters like we do characters of other continuities by disambiguating them by franchise, does anyone else feel that a bunch of characters with (WFC) disambigs having their Prime designs as their main image feels a little off? I mean, Thundercracker (Armada) uses his Armada design as his main image despite his Cybertron depiction being his most prominent one. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the WFC designs be the main images for those characters who bear the (WFC) disambig and such? Especially since our policy says, "the main image [of a character's page] should be their original 'real world' form". --Sabrblade 00:34, 7 January 2013 (EST)

Not sure why it's there for Thundercracker, but characters like Sideways (RID) and The Fallen use their later body designs for their mainpics. It's the most prominent way they've appeared, same as Sideways and Fallen. --Detour 00:40, 7 January 2013 (EST)

The only reason Sideways has his Armada body at the top of the page is that there is no art of the RID body. His packaging image was a photo of his toy and he hasn't appeared in that body anywhere in fiction. The Fallen has his movie body because, well, it was our most popular page for a year or two, because of the movies, and so he was a special case. Regardless, a part of me is pretty okay with the Aligned guys having their Prime bodies at the top, ignoring all standards. That feels a lot different to me than the disambiguation parenthetical, which is there for organization, not for looks or presentation like the main image is. But my feelings are not super strong. --ItsWalky 01:31, 7 January 2013 (EST)

I think we should stick with the Prime images. I'm basically okay with the disambig change at this point after not being on board at first, but I think keeping their Prime main images will help mitigate the potential confusion or blurring of the lines that Aligned seems to always foster. - Chris McFeely 05:09, 7 January 2013 (EST)

I think for the time being, Prime images make the most sense. Going into the future, I think additional different-looking cartoons in the Aligned continuity would be a decent argument for returning to WFC bodies, because at that point they're simply one of many looks, instead of the less prominent of two. -LV 11:49, 7 January 2013 (EST)

Continuing spam

With the spam continuing, even with captchas and email activation turned on, are we to assume that it's some actual poor bastards sitting there copypasting nonsense about handbags into pages? Would a possible solution be trivia-style verification questions? Something most TF fans would know, or could otherwise find out easily, but that a bored spammer would lack the initiative to find out? Like 'who is the Combaticon leader?' or 'what faction does Hound belong to?' and so on. Jalaguy 14:57, 8 January 2013 (EST)

Are Captchas and email activation turned on? I'm not sure how they could be. These are obviously bots, and last I heard we'd only turned on the requirement to register before you can edit.--Rosicrucian^Talk 15:05, 8 January 2013 (EST)

Yeah, log out and check the account creation page, there's a reCAPTCHA thingmabob on there now. Sipher mentioned activation emails being turned on in the spam discusson further up the page, but looking at the sign-up page again, email isn't required, so I guess it can't be... Jalaguy 15:14, 8 January 2013 (EST)

There are several simple steps that would improve matters immediately and immensely - TitleBlacklist to block the likes of [[Talk:Something/]] and [[Talk:/Something]], preventing users from creating User: pages with their first edit by requiring the Autoconfirmed permission to do so, adding a $wgSpamRegex to LocalSettings.php to prevent pages from being saved if they contain obvious trigger words like "viagra", "cialis", "online casino", "ugg boots" and so forth. They just aren't being used. - SanityOrMadness 19:20, 8 January 2013 (EST)

reCaptcha is a piece of poop, security-wise. I'm also reluctant to add more extensions at the moment, due to performance issues, BUT. Find something simple and lightweight to REPLACE reCaptcha, and we can talk. --McFly 05:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

$wgSpamRegex isn't an extension, it's a line of code you can add various banned words to (i.e., if "viagra" is in the list and someone tries to save a page that includes it, the page wouldn't save and they'd get a error message telling them why it wouldn't save. - SanityOrMadness 07:29, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

You know what WASN'T on? wgEmailConfirmToEdit. That may make a LOT more sense, as I'd wager that spambots aren't actually including legit emails. Email authentication is NOT the same thing. --McFly 16:50, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I still don't think reCaptcha is helping, as noticed, and it doesn't have anything like, say, a lockout policy, so I've bit the bullet and added a modified version of the SpamBlacklist extension, adding in RBL support and some basic language filters in one go. It's reasonably light on DB traffic, too. Will it slow the flood? That remains to be seen, but they're still getting around it right now. I also think I've resolved the IP blocking issue, so we might (might!) be okay now. Turns out that adding a load balancer in front of the Squid caches hurts Mediawiki's IP detection logic. --McFly 20:21, 16 January 2013 (EST)

We are moving very very soon.

That means at some point within the next few hours to few days the wiki will go to Read Only mode while McFly moves stuff around. Then we won't be hemorrhaging cash and things will run smoothly and we'll all have boners, even the ladies. --ItsWalky 17:12, 9 January 2013 (EST)

I've got one right now! - Chris McFeely 17:23, 9 January 2013 (EST)

Okay, so, uh, what the hell happened? -- spyder^{Use this!} 00:43, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

We have moved. Some things are still being tweaked. --abates 00:46, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, I knew we moved, just I thought nothing would look different. Oh, well. -- spyder^{Use this!} 00:52, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

New Mediawiki software version. Some things got a little mixed up in the move, and newer versions decided to put the hammer down on bad practices. Other things are just... being refactored from a distinct lack of notes. --McFly 01:43, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Most of what's left is going to be us rejiggering some templates to more efficient code, and documenting the snot out of things so McFly doesn't name his first ulcer after us.--Rosicrucian^Talk 02:02, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

http://science.education.nih.gov/home2.nsf/Educational+ResourcesResource+FormatsOnline+Resources+High+School/928BAB9A176A71B585256CCD00634489 :p - SanityOrMadness 07:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Pedantry aside, I CAN name my migraines after you. Stress exacerbates THOSE. --McFly 20:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Which migraine's stronger then? Madness or little Sanity? :p - SanityOrMadness 10:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Stuffs what have gone wrong(er)

User CSS files aren't being called post-move. Basically, the stuff here was previously all set true, now it's set false. [Is MediaWiki:Common.css even working?] - SanityOrMadness 07:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Compared old LocalSettings.php to new, wgUseSiteJs/wgUseSiteCss were NOT set over there. If you're not just making blanket assumptions, please point my not-MediaWiki-understanding ass to the right place. Remember, I built the house, but others (Scout? Derik?) actually laid out the rooms and installed the appliances. My understanding of Mediawiki extends out to "Ooh, shiny mediawiki package in apt repositories..." Anything else is a Wild. Ass. Guess. --McFly 20:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not an expert (And I can't see the Wiki's LocalSettings.php myself to be sure!), but I have played around with MediaWiki a fair bit, so I'm beyond the "oh, shiny" stage and I know where to look at in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Contents .

For instance, I don't know what $wgAutoConfirmAge and $wgAutoConfirmCount are currrently set to. If the createpage and upload have been set, but those two variables are not set, a fairly minimal barrier would be two days & four edits before you can create pages and upload files - certainly, very few spambots will hang around for two whole days before editing!

$wgAutoConfirmAge = 86400 * 2; # Two days times 86400 seconds/day
$wgAutoConfirmCount = 4;

If they HAVEN'T been set, you can add them with:

# Only users with accounts in autoconfirmed group
# (registered accounts at least as old as $wgAutoConfirmAge and having at least as many edits as $wgAutoConfirmCount)
# can create pages:
$wgGroupPermissions['*'            ]['createpage'] = false;
$wgGroupPermissions['user'         ]['createpage'] = false;
$wgGroupPermissions['autoconfirmed']['createpage'] = true;

# Only users with accounts in autoconfirmed group
# (registered accounts at least as old as $wgAutoConfirmAge and having at least as many edits as $wgAutoConfirmCount)
# can upload files:
$wgGroupPermissions['*'            ]['upload'] = false;
$wgGroupPermissions['user'         ]['upload'] = false;
$wgGroupPermissions['autoconfirmed']['upload'] = true;

-SanityOrMadness 10:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Broken templates

{{cal-date}} is broken, but I'm not template savvy enough to fix it. Anyone want to have a go? --abates 07:17, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Ja, I will fix it. -Derik 00:15, 17 January 2013 (EST)

$%^&* I'm getting closer to fixing it. -Derik 15:02, 17 January 2013 (EST)

*cries piteously* -Derik 15:43, 17 January 2013 (EST)

I've just had a go and I think that's sorted it! Not sure if there are any other broken templates lurking out there... --abates 05:58, 20 January 2013 (EST)

Storylink

Are the storylinks looking odd for anyone else? They appear as full size text without the surrounding box from before for me. --Khajidha 12:29, 20 January 2013 (EST)

Yeah, storylinks, note boxes, disambig boxes, organisation templates (eg. listing comics issues) and episode/issue/etc. infoboxes are all not displaying correctly. I assume that the folks who know what they're doing with this kind of stuff are working on getting them fixed.. Jalaguy 12:42, 20 January 2013 (EST)

I think that's done it - or at least it's displaying normally for me now. Well done to all involved, much appreciated. --Emvee 17:04, 22 January 2013 (EST)

Still Confused About All This

I just got registered so that I can always find this site.

When I search for Transformers Wiki, all I get is Teletraan 1 and I don't like that site as well. Heck, their information on BotShots is woefully unsatisfactory.

Did this site used to be that site or the other way around? Much of the information in articles looks copied from one site or the other.

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask these questions. I was looking for an e-mail address or something and couldn't find it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Haven13 (talk • contribs).

No worries! We were originally at Wikia, but split with them in September 2008 and went independent. Wikia are still operating the old version, but it doesn't get updated in a lot of areas.

Where is it you're searching for Transformers Wiki? We come up first on Google when I search on there. --abates 18:16, 23 January 2013 (EST)

Ooh! Ooh! Let me guess! BING. (Who are blocked for hammering our wee servers.) --McFly 23:52, 23 January 2013 (EST)