MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Archive17

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Anonymous edits

Lately, I've been looking at wikis that have decided to turn off anonymous edits, and have everybody log in before contributing to the wiki. The idea is that having everybody log in builds a stronger sense of community, because you always have a name to associate with an edit, rather than a random string of numbers. It's easier to talk to people who have names. It also gives you more control over vandalism, since you can recognize potential vandals more easily.Some people don't like the idea, because they're worried that logging in is a barrier to entry -- if you have to log in to edit, then you won't bother, and you'll go away. Looking at the wikis that require login, that doesn't seem to be true. Muppet Wiki turned off anon edits last April, and the number of active editors has actually gone up. Some of our most active wikis require login -- World of Warcraft, FFXIclopedia, Tibia Wiki and Marvel Database. (WoW and FFXI actually require a confirmed e-mail address before you can edit.)So I've been talking to folks about this, and we've decided to allow wiki communities to turn off anonymous edits if they want to. There are a lot of anonymous editors here, so I'm wondering what you guys think about it. Would it be helpful to require login for everybody? Obviously, that's a big community decision... I just want to throw out the possibility, and see what you think. -- Danny<staff /> (talk) 20:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I strongly oppose disabling anonymous edits! (I also oppose sweeping changes performed over botcon, and unilaterally re-skining the site when the community can argue for weeks or month about proposed style changes to individual templates without reaching a consensus-- but if you're willing to ignore the needs of registered users while making such 'big community decisions,' why would you listen to anon users?) -75.168.112.43 08:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, let's get an opposing viewpoint here. Why are you, 75.168.112.43, unwilling to get an account? JW 11:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
You assume I don't have an account.
I strongly oppose disabling anonymous edits because;
  • It puts up a gateway that discourages first time users. Not a tall gateway- but a gateway nonetheless. Even if it only turns back 30% of new editors, that's 30% of people who could potentially become productive members of the community we're turning away out of hand.
  • Equally important to the new users are the 'casual fixers', people who will /never/ become regulars on this wiki but, while clicking around, notice a link leading to Megatron instead of Megatron (G1). If they have to register to make that simple fix? 9 times out of 10 that kind of fix will not get done.
  • The problem 'disabling anonymous edits' seeks to fix- trolls- will not be solved. We already have trolls who register for accounts-- right now we don't even require an e-mail address. So next to combat Troll,s we'll require all accounts to have e-mail addresses. Then we'll require those e-mails be verified, then maybe we'll set up a system where new users have to be approved like so many online communities before they can use their account. IP Tracking! Requiring Persistent Cookies! Each and any of these steps makes the online experience just a little bit more unpleasant for the user (and each hoop to jump throuhg makes new users just a little disinclined to join) but none of them actually stops trolls! Clear your cache, sign up for a yahoo account and you're up and running again. The trolls that regularly bother TT1 have already demonstrated they are willing to go to these lengths to evade bans. I am opposed to any measure that would punish the general body of users (registered and non) to deal with trolls. I am strongly opposed to any measure that would punish users and not deal with trolls, which is what this promises to do.
And seriously- while I'm tickled to death to know that the 'wikia community developer' has been attracted to communities that place restrictions on their users, I'm not thrilled to see someone who's not part of the community lobbying that we become more insular. I think changing TT1 to a UI that's different from Wikipedia makes the site harder to use (both for new users, and for users who make contributions to multiple wikis) is an objectively bad decision that was made with little discussion because 'it looks better.' And I really dislike that this was done while everyone was gone at Botcon and it was impossible to form a quorum for proper discussion. Monorail guy dances into town and starts making global changes that he thinks 'make more sense' without understanding that they were that way for a reason, and his whims would require massive secondary cleanup effort to enact. I don't think someone who's not a participating member of this community should be initiating that kind of change, or throwing his weight behind them for them while 'polling for consensus. On a more fundamental level- I'm suspicious about external voices telling us how we should be running this wiki, because sooner or later they're gong to tell us The Funny Should Go.
I feel the burden of proof is on the other side here-- show that there will be a concrete and measurable improvement to the wiki by disabling anonymous edits that will NOT place an unnecessary burden on users. -75.168.112.43 12:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
"You assume I don't have an account." Well, then, please tell us why you aren't willing to use it. I'm truly curious. JW 13:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
More to the point, the IP address 75.168.112.43 has only made 10 contributions to this wiki, of which only 4 are of actual substance. Your comments will carry more weight if you tell us which long-established editor you in fact are. Otherwise, you're the "external voice telling us how we should be running this wiki". JW 13:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I oppose to disable anonymous edit, too. I was once a anonymous user . If the anonymous edit is disabled, that would mean we close the door for many potential users-to-be. Though I hate anonymous vandalizing, which is really a problem. But any bad anonymous user can get an account to vandalize, too. Urgh.--TX55 13:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

The Funny Should Definitely Not Go. The reason why I've been hanging out on this wiki lately is because I like it -- specifically, because I like the Funny. I don't want to annoy people or screw stuff up; I'm just trying to help out in ways that I know how to help.I didn't unilaterally change the skin... If you look above, the conversation about the skin started on April 7th. On Thursday, I asked if there were any more comments before I switched it over. The only response was from ItsWalky, who indicated that it would be okay. I've been keeping an eye on the stats -- the number of edits, registrations and pageviews have all gone up since the wiki switched to Monaco. (Saturday was the highest single day for registrations on the wiki since January.)As I said, anonymous edits is totally a community decision. I just wanted to let you know that it's an option if the community wants it. It's a long-term discussion, and I don't have an interest in pushing it one way or the other. -- Danny<staff /> (talk) 14:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I would be against restricting edits to registered members. This wiki already has a reputation in the Transformers community as alledgedly being the playground for a very specific group of fans. Restricting edits will only further this perception. But more importantly:
  • I tend to agree that if one has no intention of making significant edits, but very occassionally fixes minor mistakes that one sees, then one shouldn't be forced to register to do so.
  • Some of us would prefer not to login while accessing the wiki at school or at work. Yeah, we have our reasons.
  • Chris McFeely, one of our staff members, sometimes has trouble logging onto the wiki when he's not at home, so if we restrict edits to logged-in users, he can't make any contributions if he happens to have free time while out and about.
  • Good anonymous editors sometimes eventually become registered members if they find they enjoy making the edits and would to participate in the little community we have.
  • Trolls and vandals who go to the effort of being repeat offenders will not be scared off by a registration process. I think we'll find that these people have alot of free time on their hands. Even more than I do!
--FFN 15:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd be more willing to believe that the increase in edits on Saturday was due to the new skin if Saturday didn't happen to be the day most of the BotCon panels were held. Those give us a lot of new information that needs to be added to the wiki. Plus, two (or three) new episodes were shown that morning: Return of the Headmaster in the US, Mission Accomplished in Canada, and Collect and Save at Botcon. --FortMax 15:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
No kidding. You could've changed the site to pink-and-purple polka dots, and traffic still would've increased this weekend, with everyone fighting to be the first to add all the new scraps of information from the convention. --Xaaron 17:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm no one special on this wiki, but I wanted to weigh in. Considering that everything else on the web seems to require a login, it isn't asking too much for people to sign up. All the forums require a login so people can own their opinions, why not here? Also, isn't most of the caption bastardry done by anons? Maybe forcing registration might stop some of those careless edits. Requiring an email? Now that might scare people off.--Suzyprime 04:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Image overlap

I'm ugly

Umm, did this overlap happen before the new skin? If so, I never noticed it. If not, then why is it changing what goes on inside the content part of the site, not just the menus and adds and umm, everything that I can't edit as an anon? Spriteless 04:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

We're trying to figure it out over on User talk:Toughpigs.--RosicrucianTalk 04:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
That particular overlap always happened- but the transparent frame was apparently a result of some global CSS change Wikia made ~4-6 months ago.
It looks like the fix was posted on the monobook.css discussion page, but never implemented. -75.168.112.43 05:25, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
(Oh, i see this was already discussed. Hrm.) -75.168.112.43 05:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
The problem with overlaps like on the Blackthorne Publishing page in the image can be solved by putting one of these
in, which I just did on that page. --KilMichaelMcC 05:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I've had a slightly different problem with image overlap in the past few days. If there's a stub box or a "needs images" box on a page, occasionally the box's pic will remain stuck at the top of the page. For instance, in the example on the right, Kup's pic would be stuck in the top left corner, covering part of the Blackthorne Publishing title bar. It has also happened on the front page, with Jhiaxus's image from the featured article covering the Primes. --Xaaron 05:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

What broswer? (The messagebox template uses styles that render differently on IE and Geko-based browsers... but the difference shoudl eb cosmetic, not functional like that.) -75.168.112.43 05:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
IE6. Like the guy below said, it's usually self correcting on larger pages. I've noticed the effect lingers mostly on really short articles. I've been deorphaning individual weapon pages recently (Gravito-gun, Incendiary sword, etc), and the Thundercracker w/Reflector image almost always gets stuck. --Xaaron 15:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I saw the case several time. When the page is loading, the box's pic such as AniMeg's head or Kup will remain stuck on the page, but soon it will be back to the right place. It only happen when I use the IE6 (log in or not).
Speaking of the image problem, it reminds me of another one. When open page with IE(well, 6), some images will be "slashed" by a line, just like the picture shows. --TX55 08:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't appear to be happening on IE7. This sounds like a rendering issue with IE. (One of many...) Doesn't mean it doesn't need to be accomodated though.
When an image gets stuck int the top-left, is that in IE? What happens when you resize the window? -75.168.112.43 08:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
When use IE6, the image only gets stuck in the left of the top when the page is loading. After the page completes loading, all things are back to normal. If I resize the window to small when loading, the image gets stuck in the left of the bottom instead, but back to normal after finishing loading. So, it won't become a problem for me. :D --TX55 10:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Did this ever get fixed? Right now I see the image borders opaque in IE7, but transparent in Firefox, and Safari. (Hey, Safari is out for PC's! I thought it was still forthcoming.) -150.253.90.167 00:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Monaco top-of-article spam

This is new, right? -75.168.112.43 09:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

IIRC, it has existed for a while. --TX55 10:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Ugh, is there a way to turn it off?
We downgraded visibility of the 'pics needed' templates precisely because we didn't think it was right to harass the 91% of our wiki user who are just readers with demands they join and contribute. -75.168.112.43 10:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
It's awful and absurd. I don't know if I can deal with it myself-- we may need to get one of the Wikia sorts to get rid of it. I'm absolutely going to dig in my heels on this. This is not an arguably helpful UI function, this really is just harassing our users. --Suki Brits 11:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
It is very easy to turn off, and it is not a function of the switch to Monaco. Go to Preferences, then Editing, then uncheck "Enable similar articles suggestions." Easy-peasy.--RosicrucianTalk 13:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
There's also a "Thank you for your Edit, try doing these other 3 random pages," which has also been around for about a week even on Monobook, and which I assume can be disabled by the same method just described. --Thylacine 2000 14:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Yep, that would be "Preferences, Editing, Enable similar articles suggestions". :D --TX55 15:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I would imagine that is what Rosicrucian's talking about. Obviously anonymous users can't change their prefrences to turn that off; they don't have any. The suggestions aren't really problematic, but sticking a notice at the top of random pages for the majority of users saying "HEY YOU SHOULD TOTALLY REGISTER STOP READING THIS ARTICLE THAT DOESN'T MATTER JUST REGISTER FOR THE SITE SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS ANNOYING NOTICE" is incredibly unacceptable. I believe I've managed to set it to be hidden, but it's hard to tell. Let me know if that resurfaces. --Suki Brits 15:03, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Recentchanges colours missing

Whereas before, the (+X)/(-X) values would be in green/red (and bold for especially large changes), they are now neither coloured nor bolded. - SanityOrMadness 16:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

They still look colored to me.--Apcog 17:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm seeing black (+X) too. Suki Brits added some code to MediaWiki:Common.css this morning, and accidentally took out all of the .css code that was there as part of the default, including the recent changes colors. If you want, you can restore it by copying the default code "W:c:ninjagaiden:MediaWiki:Common.css|here". The recent changes colors are controlled by this code:
/* Recent changes byte indicators */
.mw-plusminus-pos { color: #006500; }
.mw-plusminus-neg { color: #8B0000; }
-- Danny<staff /> (talk) 17:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Bizarre. It's all back in now; apparently MediaWiki:Common.css adds some content (including those colours) by default if the page doesn't exist, which was quite unexpected. --Suki Brits 18:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the MediaWiki default pages are stored centrally, but can be overwritten locally on a wiki. If Wikia needs to update the default sitewide, you don't have to go into into 5,000 individual wikis and change the page. But if the local wiki has edited the MediaWiki page, then that overwrites the default. -- Danny<staff /> (talk) 20:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Templates mangled?

Template:Merge and Template:Split are both still titled "HELP US" but have had the Megatron/Ratchet image removed. I assume this was a mistake, since nobody would deliberately do something so ugly and pointless. How do we get them back? --Thylacine 2000 20:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I just checked out Merge, and it looks fine to me. JW 20:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler lock-out template

I vote for either protecting *ALL* Animated character pages, or setting them to be untouchable by anonymous editors, or both. I'm fucking sick of dubbed scuttlebutt killing the first story developments worth a damn we've had in 9 years. Almost nobody has actually legitimately seen these episodes; most people are just wanking over screenshots and summaries. Let's really try to keep as free of it as possible, is my vote. --Thylacine 2000 01:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Far be it from me to suggest following Wikipedia's lead, but one thing that other wiki does to stop massive edit wars or mass-vandalism on specific articles, an admin will lock the page to anon user and new accounts with instructions posted at the top of the article to leave a message on the talk page if you are unable to make a valid edit. We could save ourselves a bunch of time (and from being spoiled) by putting a similar block on the involved pages and put up a template that says something like the following:
Does Prime die? (goes best with screencap from commercial)
The subject of this article is involved with major spoilers in fiction not yet available in major markets. To avoid spoiling people, editing for anonymous users and new accounts has been disabled. If you are unable made a non-spoiler edit to this page, please leave a message describing the edit to be made on this article's talk page. --FortMax 01:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
McFeely semi-protected Sari's page after my recommendation (and a major spoiler was added) so I guess we should probably do that as well. -- SFH 02:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I like FortMax's idea...perhaps we should extend this to all of the episodes that thus far have not aired in English-speaking countries, as well. --Professor Icepick 02:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I endorse FortMax's idea wholeheartedly. This wiki should not be a breeding ground for rampant spoilers. -- Repowers 03:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's what I've managed to tool up. I've made it garishly yellow to draw attention to it.

No, Prime doesn't die. Stop crying, kid.
No, Prime doesn't die. Stop crying, kid.
Does Prime die?!
The subject of this article involves major spoilers in fiction not yet available to major markets. To prevent spoiling people, editing for anonymous users and new accounts has been disabled.


If you have a non-spoiler edit to propose, please discuss it on this article's talk page.

Whaddaya think?--RosicrucianTalk 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)That...is awesome. --Professor Icepick 03:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)Perfect --FortMax 03:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)What they said. *two thumbs up* -- Repowers 03:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)Don't think it could be better. --Sntint 03:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

...but if you really want a consensus, a page that people may avoid on sight of the title may not be the best place to test it out? I don't really think anyone will have a problem with it, anyway. --Sntint 03:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but I dig it.--AWT88 03:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

FIRE AT WILL. If it's not too much of a hassle, can this be done for ALL Animated character / vehicle / object / beyond-Canada episode pages? Maybe something important has already happened to the AllSpark or Bulkhead, and nobody has blabbed about it yet, but will decide to next week. Why continue to basically force some staff members to be on Spoiler Reading Patrol, when we can just nip more problems in the bud?--Thylacine 2000 17:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I endorse Thy's campaign fully. Let's semiprotect the fuck outta those pages. --M Sipher 19:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Lost molds

Hi I had this idea for a article on lost,broken and worn out molds. This would be my first article for this or any wiki and since I'm still a n00b around here I wanted to ask for permission first.Dead Metal 19:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC) So just give me the green light and I'll do it.

I'd take a look at the Mold article, first. It's kind of nowhere at the moment. I dunno how much there is to say about lost molds; nobody really seems to know what happens to them, and no definitive list exists of toys whose molds are lost/destroyed. They'd probably be better served a subsection of the Mold article. -- Repowers 18:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Maybe, but I could bring in some vague ideas of what might have happened to them and stuff fans believe, as a bit of comic relief.
And then there are the exhausted molds that will never see release again since they have been used to often, the list might get long.
But if it's best just a sub thing from the existing article, then OK.Dead Metal 19:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
I think a subsection would be better, considering "vague idea" is indeed all we really know about the situation. If we had a wealth of accurate info, that'd be different, but we don't. Just one example... more than once, "lost forever" molds have seemingly resurfaced. A list of molds that are known to be lost or worn out would certainly be a worthwhile addition to the existing article, though. -- Repowers 19:30, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
OK, expect it up on Monday, since I'll be to pissed for the next two days and will use -sunday to gather all the info and write it up on word then just copy, past and edit it on here.Dead Metal 12:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Alt modes

I went over the guidelines and discussion archives, but for the life of me I was never able to figure out why a Transformer's alt mode isn't listed at the page intro and the only way to find out what it is is to go to the toy section or skim the plot section. What's up with that?86.51.3.194 08:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Not sure about that policy, but it would be nice, especially since a character could have a different alt mode in various fictions. --MistaTee 10:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I see what you did there. -hx 10:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

"References"

I am going to start stabbing people soon. It seems like every day we have to delete a dozen samples of "well this dimly kinda sorta reminds me of this thing from TFs SO ITS A REFERENCE!!!". I'm beginning to think that every "References" section in TFA needs to open with a warning about making goddamn sure it actually is one... for all the good it would do. Come on, people. TFA is not subtle with its references. --M Sipher 15:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

BUT MAN THAT PART WHERE THE GUY DID THAT THING IS TOTALLY A REFERENCE TO MY FAVORITE COMIC BOOK/ANIME/VIDEO GAME THAT YOU'VE JUST NEVER HEARD OF BECAUSE YOU'RE A RETARD IT'S SO OBVIOUS DUDE. -hx 16:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

We need a user talkpage template for this. It'll get a LOT of use, I'm sure. Every damn DAY. --M Sipher 15:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Message box for people who don't bother to include info and/or copyrights with uploads

Do we have a message box for people who repeatedly upload images in rapid succession without bothering to include any copyright info (or ANY info)? If not, we need one, because I'm tired of leaving messages for people to do the right thing and check our image policy, and I'm sure other regular contributors are tired of doing this as well. --FFN 06:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, for a brief period I was just glad that we have an image policy set down now so the link can serve as shorthand for stuff I used to have to type out in talkpages but even that's getting tedious now.--RosicrucianTalk 06:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
That Skullgrin guy cheeses me off. He keeps updating the Canadian voice actors with new photos, but absolutely refuses to respond to his talk page or provide the requested source and copyright information. --FFN 16:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I've plopped down {{tagyourpics}} as a first draft. Feel free to tweak or reword. I'm not married to the image, as I just grabbed an existing one. I don't have image editing tools here at work so I can't get a better one until I get home.--RosicrucianTalk 17:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Unreleased toys page?

Do we have a page that lists toys that were canceled and thus never released? If not should I start one? I would love to start an article.Dead Metal 13:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's only the by far. --TX55TALK 16:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
As a wiki, we're not big on lists, but this sounds like one of the more useful ones to have. I'd say go for it. -Derik 16:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll start as soon as possible!Dead Metal 17:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Character infobox

Okay, I know that people have had some problems with the infobox concept, but I'd like to be heard out first. I'm working an a template for character infobox's here, but I'm still trying to iron the kinks out. Now, instead of actually putting numbers from the teh specs on courage, intl, etc, I instead propose a small, written discription based on their fictional appearances. For example

Name: Skywarp
Race: Cybertronian
Homeworld: Cybertron
Gender: Male.
Courage: Being able to fly has its advantages.
Intelligence: Worthless without supervision.
Firepower: Bombs and lasers.
Special power: Teleportation
Rank: Air Warrior/practical joker
Actor: Frank Welker

Or say G1 Arcee

Name: Arcee
Race: Cybertronian.
Homeworld: Cybertron.
Genger: Female, and the only one Furman will use.
Courage: Wears pink on the battle field.
Intelligence: Can keep Hot Rod and Springer at bay.
Firepower: Pair of blasters, but her aim needs work.
Special power:
Rank: Gunner, but she's really just Daniel's babysitter.
Actor: Susan Blu

As I said, I'm still working out the kinks. But for now, any thoughts? -- SFH 20:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Best avoided. --M Sipher 20:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, it really seems like it would open the floodgates for a lot of non-informative jokes without much actual information. -- Repowers 05:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, since I still can't get the template to work, I suppose it's a moot point. -- SFH 06:05, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

For unknown reasons, performing edits with Link Magic Optimus Prime appears ot be 'flattening' the results when saved to Optimus Prime. This is, it goes without saying, undesirable in that it makes the pages hard to to edit again later. I'm looking into it. -Derik 04:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

...wait, has it always worked that way? That fucking obnoxious to maintain.
Damnit, I remember it working the other way. I wonder if I fell into a parallel universe where Wiki markup is different? Is Bush good here? Great, now I'm gonna have to find a guru to realign my chakras and send me home... I had much better things to do this summer than travel to massively parallel alternate dimensions. -Derik 05:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
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